Flatliners (1990): Bad Science, Worse Decisions

[00:00:00] I think maybe once in a while you just need to get your ass kicked by a little boy out of nowhere who isn't really there. Whether you're in pre-med to save lives or you're just morbidly obsessed with death, it's time for another episode of Cozy Quilt Cinema. I'm Michelle.

[00:00:29] And I'm Beth, currently flat-lined but expecting to come back with a lot of unresolved guilt. Every week Michelle and I curl up on the couch and watch a movie and just talk it out. How it makes us laugh or cry or sit on the edge of our seats or even lean into a loved one. And in this month of Super Octobertacular, the CQC Spooky Month where we talk about not-so-scary movies

[00:00:56] and scale up to mostly not-so-scary movies all month long. So grab your Nona's Seance Night Comforter, get in the blade for it and let's talk about it. Oh, and what are we talking about this week? I don't even know anymore. It is Flatliners 1990. OG Flatliners. That's right.

[00:01:20] It follows five ambitious medical students in Chicago who decide to find out what lies beyond death. Ooh. I think it just what lies in death? I mean... Totally beyond death. You're just in death. But anyway, the charismatic and reckless Nelson Wright talks his classmates into stopping his heart for a minute or so and then reviving him. And when they do, he comes back changed and he isn't alone.

[00:01:47] One by one, the students take the plunge and each is followed home by the worst thing they ever did. Except for Oliver Platt. And that's it. Yep. Oliver Platt has never done anything wrong, so it was really hard to put anything on him. I mean, really. If it wasn't for Alice Drummond, he could have been our patron saint. Very true.

[00:02:09] Although we have another woman in this that is not our patron saint, but very close to being someone we've seen in almost everything. Yes. Well, yes. And we'll get to that. Yes. Let's talk about the director. Yes. Joel Schumacher. Oh, the Joel Schumacher. Yeah. He did Lost Boys. He did. Which explains a lot.

[00:02:35] He also, he did Cousins, which I actually liked Cousins with Isabella Rossellini and Ted Danson. Yeah. And Sean Young. Yes. He also did a movie that when I was a kid, I thought was the coolest movie I'd ever seen. And I didn't understand it. Are you going to say DC Cabs? No. St. Elmo's Fire. Oh. I just didn't understand it because I was too young to understand what any of it really meant. Yeah. I just thought they were really cool. Oh, okay.

[00:03:05] He also did The Incredible Shrinking Woman with Lily Tomlin. Yeah, I fucking love that movie. I love her. Yeah. Batman Forever. Yep. He did a lot of Batman. He's done a lot of stuff. Batman or Robin. We could go on and on with Joel the Schumacher. Yes. And this was written by Peter Filardi, and he wrote The Craft. Yeah. And he did a lot of TV stuff, but he did Nightmares and Dreamscapes. Do you remember that show? Yeah. He did Chapelweight as well. Yes.

[00:03:33] Which was really kind of, you know, it said, Chapelweight, if you don't know, is, it's like the pre-story of Salem's Lot. Yeah. Yeah. Messed up, man. Yeah. But yeah, Nightmares and Dreamscapes, for those of you too young to know, it's kind of like, which I'm going to make it even harder, Tales from the Dark Side, Tales from the Crypt. What was that one that Steven Spielberg did? Crap, I can't think of it right now.

[00:04:01] But that one was also kind of like, just little short stories and they always either had something fantastic or horrifying. Twilight Zone. Yeah, yeah. Things like that. Outer Limits, those types of TV shows. Well, don't worry because we're talking about Flatliners and not The Craft, which is a much scarier movie. And it's not a scary movie. But yeah, here's the thing about, so before we get into the actors, I'm going to jump this a bit here and go right. Jump the gun. Jumping that gun. Jump the knife. Jumping right over the rope.

[00:04:30] I can't jump rope very well. Jump the pickaxe. I can jump rope. It's getting stuck in your face. I can jump rope, but I can't double dutch. Okay. I know. You just stuck on that. I know, I did. Well, they were double dutching it. We need to move you along. Okay. It's always with the sound effects. I know. Don't play out over audio. So, I remembered this movie as actually being scary. Not scary, scary, but like, this was not scary. And this is coming from me.

[00:04:59] I, again, remember me last week, guys, Weenie Tot Jr. That movie was scarier. The Haunting? Yeah, I think it was. I mean, if you were going to rate them, neither are scary. Not really. But if you were going to rate them, I would say this is the less scary of the team. I know. And we did kind of, we did waffle on this one. Which one to do, you know, first. I did waffle. I pancaked a little bit. I baked an egg. I french toast a lot. Basically, we just breakfasted everything.

[00:05:29] Breakfast did it. Which is the best way to do it. I mean, breakfast all the time. Look, I look at it this way. I took both movies and I said, which one is Kevin Bacon in? And that's why we, that's how we got the breakfast ideas. Right. And then we went to that being the scariest, no matter what, just because Kevin Bacon. Well, you know what? Honestly, if we're going to go by scary Kevin Bacon movies, you know, Stir of Echoes was pretty fucking scary compared to. And he's got a scarier one that we can do later.

[00:05:59] Yeah, there we go. So, yeah. But this was not scary, guys. I mean, I remembered it. I think I was conflating this with Jacob's Ladder. Probably. And Jacob's Ladder had some fucking visuals in there. I don't think it was, Jacob's Ladder wasn't scary to me. It was fucked up. But it wasn't scary. Because I think there's a lot, it's been decades since I've seen Jacob's Ladder. So again, maybe because it's been decades since I've seen this. I think I'm just conflating the two and I remember there being fucked up visuals in Jacob's Ladder.

[00:06:28] I think it has to do with the Gothic designs. We'll get to that in a minute. I got to talk about the college when we're done with the cast. Sure. But how does it... Okay. So, I really didn't... We haven't really been saying the, how did that make you feel thing? Well, we don't really do that anymore. Because we're talking about how we feel during this entire thing. So, I do... So, I guess you're going to tell me. I'll wait. I'll wait. I'll wait. It's just, I have a train of thought going right now and I hate... And sometimes I hate to derail because then I forget where I am.

[00:06:58] Well, for me, when I watched this, you know, many years ago, I didn't find this scary in the least. All I thought was, okay, well, it's got a bunch of hot people in it. Oliver Platt, in his hot phase, they were all hot. He was a cute baby. And yeah, I thought I was just like very happy to be included in the movie. Just happy to be here. Like the flatlining just didn't really seem to matter that much.

[00:07:26] There was just too many cute people in it. It's disappointing that they had these great actors together and this was the most sleepy, somniferent, isn't that the word? I'm looking for a specific word. Salmonent? I don't know. I wanted to go to sleep and I always want to go to sleep during movies, but this one particularly.

[00:07:53] Okay, well, this is very shallow. There's yeah. I mean, I know they're trying for deep and they really are kind of trying, but you know, when we talk about this movie, my thoughts of like this, the more poignant, the deeper movie of this kind of situation they're trying to set up in Flatliners was the 1983 brainstorm with Christopher Walken and Natalie Wood in it.

[00:08:22] I've never seen that one. I've never seen that one. So they record their, well, they record death. Okay. They have this tape, literally like a reel to reel. Okay. It's like a silver ribbon, basically. It's very futuristic for the time. Okay. But they actually record death. And, and part of that is being able to play back memories and stuff like that. But it was a much deeper film.

[00:08:51] And you expect this one to be much like that in some way. Especially with the cast. Um, so this stars, it's kind of got five leads. So here we go. Uh, Kiefer Sutherland as Nelson Wright. And you know what I did not do? I did not look at their movies. I got like ahead of myself. Um, but we know Kiefer from Lost Boys. Yeah. Stand By Me. Mm hmm. In 86.

[00:09:18] And you know, he's done, he did the series 24. Oh, yeah. Which everyone knows him from. I mean, he's done pretty much. He's done a lot. He's done a lot of things. I just, yeah. And Julia Roberts as Dr. Rachel Maness, who is beautiful. And we know Julia from. Steel Magnolias. Steel Magnolias. Obviously Pretty Woman. And one movie we already did, Erin Brockovich. And My Best Friend's Wedding. Yeah, yeah. And My Best Friend's Wedding. I forgot we did that one.

[00:09:48] Oh, we should do that again. I like this song. What? It's one of my favorite. We can watch it independently of the show. I know. But if we talk about it on here, I can say it's for work. So we have this guy who I don't know if we've ever talked about him before, but Kevin Bacon. It's Baccon. Yes, Kevin Bacon, who is the king of our Tremors Index. Yeah, and he's playing David Labraccio.

[00:10:18] Labraccio. Labraccio. The only reason why I know that is because he pronounces it when he talks to the girl, when he meets Winnie. He was in Footloose, obviously. He was. He was in Apollo 13. Tremors. Mystic River. Mystic River. And, obviously, Stir of Echoes. Yeah. Because we just said it. That's right. Now, William Baldwin, I'm a little stuck on because there's too many Baldwins and they kind of all looked alike at that age.

[00:10:43] Now, where I know William at, or from, as Joe Hurley, is from this movie because that's the only thing he's played Joe Hurley in. Yeah, well, yeah. But then he was also in Backdraft. Yes, he was in Backdraft. Because, see, again, if I had finished my notes instead of assuming I had done them, I would have had that down. He also did Sliver in 93. So, he had a lot of 90s stuff.

[00:11:08] But, also, in the 2000s, the early 2000s, or, you know, 2007 to 2012, he did Gossip Girl, which I had no idea. Oh, I didn't realize he was on Gossip Girl. He must be playing someone's grandfather. And then we have our buddy. That's not shade. That's just. Our friend Oliver Platt. I wish he was our friend. I really wish he was our friend. I would seriously date that man. I would be his friend. I would totally be his friend.

[00:11:35] And so, he was in Pieces of April, which we did on here. He was also in Lake Placid, which we also did on here. He was in The Three Musketeers, which I adore. We'll have to do that one. And he did the series Chicago Mad. Yes. And he was also on West Wing. He was also on West Wing. Babish. Intermittently. He plays Babish. Yes, he does. It always amazes me how much you know about these.

[00:12:02] Well, because that's where Binging with Babish got their name from. Is it? Yes, from West Wing. I had no idea. I thought his name was Babish. No. I forget what his name is, but he got his name from West Wing, from Babish. Oh, okay. I really had no idea. That makes it better or worse. I'm not sure which. I'm not sure yet. But yes, so he is playing Oliver Platt in this. I know he's playing Randy Steckle. Yeah, but he's playing Oliver. He's playing Oliver Platt.

[00:12:30] I mean, I'm not sure he ever plays someone other than himself. I don't think he actually is playing himself. I think he plays a version of himself in every movie. I mean, to a certain degree. So I have two honorable mentions here, only because they've got, in the very beginning of the movie, they are just, you know, short little, not really walk-ons and not really cameos, but they're actors who, at the time, you really kind of were like, huh, okay. But now you probably recognize Beth Grant.

[00:12:58] And if you don't know her name, you know her as, if you're a fan of The Office, Dwight's babysitter slash date. Yeah, and she was in Speed. Oh, she was the old woman on the bus. She was, both of these women were in everything and still are. The other one is Patricia Belcher. She was Caroline Julian on Jones. On Jones. On Jones. Caroline Julian, who is, oh my God, forget it. No, do it. I can't.

[00:13:28] I can't. Okay. Just do it. Okay. Patricia Belcher, who is Caroline Julian on the show Bones. There you go. I knew you. Bone. Bone. All right. So there is another person, Hope Davis. I love her. She is the fiance to the bald one in this movie. The bald one. Right. Who finds out that he's been, you know, you can watch the movie.

[00:13:54] So she was also in the newsroom as Nina Howard. Okay. And I just, I don't know why I love her because she's versatile. She can be sweet in one movie and completely different in another. She was sweet in this movie. She was just hurt. Very hurt. Which honestly, I understand. So I just wanted to mention her because I just, I noticed her in the, in the movie and I had to look it up and I'm like, oh yeah, that's Hope. Okay. Now I know.

[00:14:22] So we are talking about grief disguised as curiosity in this film. In guilt. Sure. But grief drives it. Yes. Grief and guilt are the two things that drive all of these people, except for Oliver Platt, who is a spectator. And very, very much. I don't want to say he's full of himself, but he has very much like, you know, he's already plotting his book and he hasn't even finished med school.

[00:14:51] Well, he's much like another Baldwin in another movie. He has a God complex. He does have a God complex. Ooh, I forgot about that movie. That was a good movie. Yeah. So, I mean, it's, it's disguised though. These are the, the idea of it because you're not going to get the full story from anyone except the main players, they learn nothing, but they learn something. Yeah.

[00:15:17] Again, this was a, so unfortunately in my research, and this is probably why I forgot to do half of my notes is because I kind of went down a rabbit hole of an article that got my attention because while I was looking up information about something else pertaining to this movie, I saw this article, which kind of, it was misleading because it made me think that it was going to talk about what I was looking for. Did not.

[00:15:41] But it does talk about what we were saying, how you've got this cast, Kiefer, Julia, Kevin, you know, I mean, these are like powerhouses of the time. It was like the Brat Pack kind of thing. Well, I mean, really it stepped outside of the Brat Pack and pulled in some really high end, you know, movie stars. And you, and you had this, oh, they, Schumacher, oh my God. You can do it. I can't get names. You got it.

[00:16:10] I believe you. Joel Schumacher. And, you know, he, it was like he took this idea and what could have been a really dark and deep movie and just kind of like shallow puddle jumped it. I don't know. He tried for dark at first and he went, you know, that's, that's too much. I'm going to pull back. So you start out with this really, it's all based really deeply in Catholicism. Very much so.

[00:16:38] So I'm not sure how much Joel might be, I don't know, reliving issues. Or even Peter because, but then again, Peter, but he wrote the craft. So I'm not too sure. Well, also Catholicism. A lot of right about. That's true. So, but in this, they're literally in this kind of cathedral setting. Yes. So this was filmed in Loyola University. See how I set you up for that? Yes. So which honestly, there, there's a point in this movie, especially in the very beginning

[00:17:04] where you could literally consider the, the, the, the set, the location as another character. It really can. Because I don't know anything about the interiors of this university. Cause I tried looking at pictures and I would just kept showing me those pictures of the outside and it was sunny and bright. There is nothing sunny and bright in this movie. So definitely the camp, the, the cinematography definitely draws you in to the mood of the movie, what it's trying to do.

[00:17:30] And this college that the, the, the actors are in, you know, this med school, they never say that it's Loyola. It's when I, you know, did my research, it said it was Loyola. Um, it's intended to look very gothic. Oh yeah. But like they are literally doing autopsies in a, you know, not autopsies, but like they're doing their medical, you know, with the bodies part when they're like dissecting and stuff

[00:17:56] in a circular room with Michelangelo-esque paintings. And there's this head sculpture reminiscent of, um, the one in the fountain from the remake of, um, uh, House on Haunted Hill. And it's like, this is kind of creeped. I mean, it starts out with all these, um, statues and they're all looking in the same direction.

[00:18:22] The, the, the, the hospital with Kevin Bacon in the beginning when he does, when there's the emergency and he does, um, the operation he's not supposed to be doing. The curved ceilings of the hallway, the light, it's, everything's kind of got a greenish, yellowish kind of dour kind of bringing you in. It's setting the mood for a movie that should have had more, even if just the jump scares, it needed to have more. Yeah.

[00:18:51] It just never quite enveloped itself in the mood that it was trying to set. No. Yeah. You're right. Even though it just like went really hard for the, the Catholic iconery, iconography. Iconography. Yeah. Iconery is a Sean icon. But yeah, for the iconography. Or a Billy O'Connery. There you go. Are you trying to get Billy Ocean involved in this? Let's not do that. No, but Billy O'Conner. Yeah. But yeah.

[00:19:20] So I think that, you know, they tried really hard to get everybody into this mood of dark Gothic, but then they just didn't, they never said it. They just, I don't know. It's like they tried too hard or not hard enough. I'm not sure which. Yeah. And, and like I said, I don't know if these were, if it was just like parts of the school and then the rest were done on a set. It didn't really, I couldn't really find that information, but it's very, if that's what

[00:19:48] the medical school is like, I would not go to medical school. I mean, first of all, it's completely unhygienic everywhere. No. It literally is got this like turn of the century, you know, like, you know, somebody stole those cadavers. No, everything's leaking water everywhere. Well, yeah. And there's plastic sheeting everywhere. I mean, you know, restoring something, but never got around to, he does mention, hey, you guys are doing a great job to the guys who are restoring one little section. I know.

[00:20:17] But it's like, honestly, you are kind of expected that those bodies were stolen from a grave. That's what I expected. The first time I watched it, I thought, oh, they stole those. But then you realize this is just a class. This is a class. And yeah, it's lovely in that gothic, witchy darkness that I really do enjoy. But it set up a false sense of what this movie was going to lead us into.

[00:20:46] And let's get the 90s science-y, whine-y thing out of the way here. Oh, yeah. Defibrillators don't work this way. They do not stop your heart, nor do they start it from flatline. So neither of those things is real. I just know that the synth music alone, and I don't normally have an issue with synth music, but there was a lot of synthesizers. Sure, but that was the day. I'm not going to get too upset. I thought we were moving away.

[00:21:16] Now, if the remake had it all in there, I'd be like, this is too much. I thought we were moving away from that by 1990, but I guess not. I don't think so. And there were a lot of, I guess, literally the first scene, other than it not being nighttime, and it not being a pier, when the camera pans across, and you see Kiefer Sutherland hop over the wall at a little fence and stand there in his long coat and blonde hair, all I could

[00:21:44] say is, thou shalt not. Because it was the Lost Boys, but in the day, in the beginning. Yeah, this was like his pre-vampire phase. Well, I mean, he just... Or maybe after he got cured. I think that was first and then this. So yeah. So yeah. Oh my lord. You can't really go by when the movie came out. No, you got to go by the... Maybe this is a prequel.

[00:22:12] But no, we already established that Stand By Me was the prequel. Okay. So yeah. Kiefer is playing with this restless, feverish energy that he does really well. Mm-hmm. And it's something he had with Jack Bauer. It's also something he had as, you know, in Lost Boys. Well, I think in Lost Boys, he's a lot more mellow. Well, he was languid, but then he had those moments of that kind of crazed energy. Oh yeah. So he was doing his bipolar thing.

[00:22:42] A little bit. Yeah. And he's running around trying to get everybody in on this experiment. Now, the good thing about this and what I like about this movie as opposed to the last movie we had is that they are both as scientific as the other. Oh yeah. Yeah. In which they document nothing and just do the things, but not really. Yeah, that is true. They're doing this in the name of sccience, but there is no sccience happening.

[00:23:12] I mean, for one, the person who is filming everything really just uses it for sex tapes. Yeah. And he doesn't actually film very much of anything that they're doing. No. Nor does anyone record any of the settings they're doing in any way. Nope. Oliver Platt once in a while turns his tape recorder on and that is it. There is no dedicated. Yeah. And so here we go. This is why he, this is why Nelson picked the people that he picked to do his experiment.

[00:23:42] And meanwhile, so let's really, let's do a little sidetrack here. His experiment is I want to die and then I want you to bring me back. And I only want to be dead for about a minute. Okay. Okay. So he needs, he needs Kevin Bacon to put him under. He needs, no. Yeah. No. Yeah. He needs, he needs Julia Roberts. Kevin to bring him back. Yeah. He needs Julia Roberts to, to bring, to, to put him under. He needs Kevin Bacon to bring him back.

[00:24:12] He needs William Baldwin to hold the camera and he needs Oliver Platt to record it. Actually, he needs Oliver Platt to do commentary. Oh yeah. Well, there's that. We shouldn't do this guys. Guys, this is a really bad idea. This is stupid. Except, except. Although he is the right one in this. But he is also, he was a lot braver with that, that, the, the alligator in Lake Placid. He really was. He was a brave man. The crocadiggle.

[00:24:38] So yeah, Julia is, at the time she was fresh off Pretty Woman and Steel Magnolias. And she's providing this steady, wary intelligence in the group. Mm-hmm. Which, you see that in here, that her being a woman in this field and being a woman in this group makes her wary of everyone and also very competitive. Mm-hmm.

[00:25:05] And she has to be because she has to be better than everyone else in the room. And they think it's because she's trying to upstage them. But really, it's about being, I don't know, taken seriously as a woman in medicine, in science. And you can also see how, like, she kept saying, I want to go next. And then one of the guys, like, they were bidding over time. Well, I'll go under for this long. And it's like, almost like that game show. I named that tune.

[00:25:34] I can name that tune in 10 seconds. Exactly. But it's the opposite. It's, I can stay dead for five minutes, you know. And so somebody always overbids her. And. And of the three, because we can't count Oliver. No, because he never does. He's like, I ain't doing that shit. Because Kevin Bacon is, well, David in this is an atheist. Mm-hmm. He is considered the baseline. Mm-hmm. For the experiment.

[00:26:04] However, because, you know, the experiences one might have could lead one to believe that it might be religious in some way. Mm-hmm. And of course, that's the way they all term it. Yes. Even David, at the end, starts terming it in ways of religious instead of purely logical. But. Yeah. Anyway, Oliver Platt is actually the baseline. He's, one, not in the experiment. Mm-hmm.

[00:26:30] Two, not actually caring about any of the religious aspect. He's more worried about the individuals. Yeah. Yeah. So, but Kevin, or David. David. Is not wanting to even be part of this, and he gets roped into it because he's afraid that Kiefer, his character. Nelson. Nelson. Nelson seems so weird. I know. I'm sorry, I have trouble with that one.

[00:26:55] But anyway, yeah, David is worried that Nelson is going to kill himself and he won't be there to save him. So he does show up. Yeah. But. And he doesn't really want Rachel, Julia Roberts, to do it because he doesn't want her to die. And that's kind of, and I know that's part of why the guys keep like trying to protect her, but she sees that as an offense. And I get that too, because just because I'm a girl doesn't mean I can't die just like the rest of you motherfuckers.

[00:27:25] Yeah, but as I was saying, the reason why she is different from the rest of them, the other two or the other three, is because she didn't do anything. No. None of this was her doing. No. Her father killed himself. Mm-hmm. She had no cause. No. Now they all feel guilt over something. Yes, they all have some type of an attachment to guilt. Someone who actually didn't earn the guilt.

[00:27:55] And here's, so the breakdown is Nelson, he carries the guilt of something that happened in his childhood with a child that they were tormenting, him and his friends. And the kid ended up dying. David, his character bullied a girl when she was, when they were all in elementary school. And he, even when like he has his. Do we want to say all this?

[00:28:25] Or do we want to leave? It's a 1990 movie. Okay. If you haven't seen it, then I'm sorry. We've given bigger spoilers for more, for newer movies. I mean, it's really the only thing interesting about the movie. But yeah, needless to say, there are things that happen. And, you know, we carry these guilts with us, whether they're intentional or not, and how we deal with them.

[00:28:54] And I think there's a subconscious way of dealing with them. The whole having to have a near-death experience or die and come back to life experience is literally overkill to deal with those, those guilts. And if you can't, because, you know, life is what it is, then it's okay. Therapy exists for a reason.

[00:29:17] I appreciate the fact that the boy who is chasing Nelson around is basically the kid from Better Off Dead. I want my two dollars. Yeah, trying to get his money for the paper route. So, and is very tenacious in it. So he keeps showing up to beat the crap out of him. Yeah. There's something really cathartic about watching Kiefer get beaten up by a boy. By a ghost boy.

[00:29:45] A ghost boy who stands over him and spits in his face. Yeah. I think that's, I don't know why. I don't have anything against Kiefer. No, I like Kiefer Southern. I think maybe once in a while you just need to get your ass kicked by a little boy out of nowhere who isn't really there. I mean, and I'm sorry. Once you see that the lights around you have turned a different color, then you might want to like... I don't think that's for them. I think that's for us. I don't care. So yeah, that is a thing.

[00:30:12] So for Nelson, everything turns a dark, well, like a blue. Like a blue, yeah. Like a dark blue. And then for Julia... Rachel. Rachel. I can't remember when to say April, but it's because I have pieces of April in my head. Oh. Um, for her, it turns red. Yes. Um, but I think it has something to do with what she sees. Sure. But the difference in the colors, I don't remember what...

[00:30:42] So here's the thing is... The rest of them see. It doesn't change. It just gets brighter for, um, for David because remember he's on the subway and then the little girl starts berating him. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, yeah, for him, I guess it's a white light. Mm-hmm. So everyone has a different version of the grief or the guilt that they're feeling. Yeah. And I think those colors are meant to tell you who's seeing what. Yeah.

[00:31:09] And I think with Joe, everything just was gray because it's like black and white. Of the films that he's... Mm-hmm. The grainy ass films that he's making for... He's making sex tapes. And he's not telling the partner. Yeah. Without the partners. And he's also cheating on his fiance. Yeah. Yeah. That comes back to bite him, but not near hard enough. No. Really. It should have been worse. Much worse. She should have had her uncles come after him. He didn't seem to be too pissed about it. Nah. He was still getting hit. He seemed okay with it. Yeah. You know. Yeah.

[00:31:39] So nobody's being chased by a monster. Nope. They're being chased by the people that they hurt or they believe that they've hurt in some way. And that's the emotional part of the movie. If you want the emotions, it's not really the dying. No. It's dealing with that. Dealing with it afterwards. I think the scariest part of this movie is whatever the hell Halloween party is happening outside.

[00:32:03] And the god awful costumes, the double headed ghost thingy on the bike, the two of them, they show that in the ad. I remember that. And I think that's why I thought this movie was going to be scarier. And I think I had that in my head too. Yeah. Thinking about this movie is as I would picture that scene of those costumed, you know, and it's not a scary movie at all. You really don't get a sense that this is a school. No.

[00:32:31] You just get a sense that this is Lord of the Flies. There's... And they're burning this giant bonfire like two feet away from the steps. Yeah. The granite stairs. Which is a little weird. Yeah. The college is allowing for a lot of stuff. It is. You know, the 90s was a wild time. I mean, damn. We all saw PCU. We know. I mean, it was coming right out of the 80s. Yes. So maybe we were getting part of the 80s.

[00:33:01] Oh, we might have been... Maybe that whole like taking down the wall was still affecting everyone. Oh, the synth music that makes so much more sense. It really does. You're getting a lot of East German music coming in. They filmed it in the 80s and they released it in the 90s. True. True enough. I get that. Yeah. That makes sense. Totally does. So Nelson's got to face what he did. And he knows that because Kevin Bacon told him. Do you listen?

[00:33:27] And when Kevin tells you he's got an idea, well, we learn from Tremors, you listen to the man. The man knows his shit. I mean, really. The poofier his hair gets in the movie, the more ideas he has. And boy, is that hair... It's where he keeps his secrets. It really is. It's where he keeps his secrets. His hair is time-release secret. So, and here's the thing. He deals with his guilt very healthily. So he... He really does. I have to say, that is probably the best part of this film. Oh, God, yeah.

[00:33:56] Even above... Not April. Rachel. Rachel. Damn it. Even above Rachel's catharsis. Mm-hmm. Because he's dealing with a live person who is still around. Yes. So he's on the subway and a little girl who he recognizes starts just tearing his ass apart verbally. That actress, that little girl actress had to have had the best day. Yeah. I got to curse and say all these bad words.

[00:34:26] Over and over. How many takes? Probably 20. But she probably loved every business. Oh, yeah. Because how many times did that poor little girl break down and laugh and giggle? I would have died if I was that age. But he calls her mom. He finds out her mom's number. Because, you know, back in the day with the telephone books. And he calls her mom and he finds out where she is and how she's doing. And he goes and visits her. Yeah. Her name is Winnie. Yeah. Which is our dog's name. Winnie Hicks.

[00:34:55] And he goes to her house. And her house is beautiful. And she's got this lovely, lovely greenhouse. And she's welcoming. She's wary. But she's welcoming. And he apologizes to her. And what he's... And she's like, why are you bringing up all these old, you know, thoughts? And he's like, because you never should have been made to feel that way. And you can tell that she, even though she's saying the words, that she still does feel hurt by them.

[00:35:24] Oh, yeah. And you will. Because anybody who has ever been bullied never gets over it. And I'm sorry. Even if you think you have, you are a different person today because of the things people said to you when you were a child. You could have been a totally different person if those things were never said to you and made you to feel bad about yourself. Because you changed internally.

[00:35:49] Either you put those thoughts inside of you and you internalized them and they made you bitter. Or they made you change to try to fix it, quote unquote fix it. Or, you know, there's so many different things that bullying does to a child. So, yeah, she still carries it. And it was a race thing, too. Here's these little white boys. Well, and there were black girls joining in on it. And she's like, oh, that ugly little girl. And he's like, you were never ugly.

[00:36:17] That wasn't the point of it. Yeah. It wasn't. I know I was not an ugly little kid. And yet I was made to feel that way by people who would find parts of me that I was already uncomfortable with and would make comments about. Oh, yeah. So, yeah, you know, you keep those things in your head. But she was very gracious. And it was kind of him to say something.

[00:36:45] It's a little bit too little too late. But at the same time, at least he thought of it. Well, it took bravery for him to go there and do it. But what it really took the emotional bravery and courage was for her to forgive him. Oh, God, yes. Even if she didn't really feel forgiveness, she gave him that feeling out of the kindness of her heart. She did not have to do that. Yeah.

[00:37:12] And I know when we were watching it, I said, I don't know what I would do if one of my bullies came to me. But I did have an experience when our oldest was a baby. I was at the mall and one of my bullies, actually, I saw that person and they came up to me and they apologized. And I was very, still very young and very, you know, like, it's okay. But also I knew in my head, I will forgive you, but I'm never going to forget what you did. And I never did. I mean, I will never forget what you did.

[00:37:41] And no one should. No one should even expect you to forget the things that someone has done to you. Forgiveness isn't saying I absolve you and I will never think of it again. It's saying I am going to take that burden off of you because I am a good person, because I am not going to hold that. There are two things you can hold when these things happen. You can hold the memory of what happened and you can hold the emotions you put towards that person.

[00:38:11] And that's a very large burden to carry with both hands. If you let the anger or the hurt go, but then you keep the memory, that's a burden you can carry. Yeah. And, you know, that's what I did with my father. I learned to let that go. I don't forget it. It's very fresh in my mind always, but I don't carry that with me.

[00:38:36] I have one hand that is holding the memories. Yeah. I'm not overburdened with something else. What I just remembered, though, is after they apologized to me, I ended up impulse buying a pair of denim overalls that I had wanted. Yeah. No, that'll teach me because I wanted them and they were more money than I really should have spent.

[00:39:03] And so I then went back home and was subsequently berated by my ex-mother-in-law. So there you go. Oh, that sucks. Not my mom. No, no. I said ex-mother-in-law. I just want to make sure that's on the record. Yes. So, no, I think that, you know, a lot of this is about absolving yourself. Now, they are killing themselves to get to that point. Mm-hmm. And they very much are killing themselves. Oh, yes.

[00:39:32] These are just acts of suicide. Yeah. Acts of killing oneself. I don't want to say it like it's not committing something. It's not a sin. No, they're not committing to it. They are definitely. Yeah, it's just dying. They're just dying to get in. Yeah. And then they're wanting to be pulled back out. And for Rachel, this is about coming to a conclusion that she is not at fault. Mm-hmm.

[00:39:56] This is about not her forgiveness or not her wanting forgiveness from her father. She thinks it's that because she thinks that somehow it's her fault. Mm-hmm. But really, it's her father who needs forgiveness. Well, in her memory, her mother said, this is your fault. It's your fault, yeah. So, I mean, when your mom turns around and says, well, your dad killed himself and it's your fault, that's going to stick.

[00:40:22] Well, no, she didn't say killing him was because he didn't kill himself until he ran down the stairs. Yes. She said it was her fault for him running down the stairs. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Because she saw, yeah, she opened the door and he was, yeah, he was shooting. Seeing the, I'm going to suppose it's not heroin, probably. It was probably morphine. Morphine. But probably, it could have been heroin. I don't know. It was in a spoon. Probably heroin. Who knows? Probably heroin. I don't know. I'm not a connoisseur. It was in a spoon. I've seen The Wire. I'm still not sure what drug they're pushing in that.

[00:40:52] Well, as somebody who is married to an ex-junkie, yeah. You still don't know. No, no, no. I would say heroin. Okay. So, yeah, I think, you know, that's her getting that catharsis, her being able to deal with the fact that it's not her fault and that she didn't push her father to do anything. This was his struggle. Yes. It had very little to do with anybody else except his own dealings.

[00:41:19] And they do go through that trope of him being in the military and therefore having probably a PTSD or an addiction that he got while injured in some way. But again, that's his battle to deal with. Not hers. Not anyone else's. Not even his wife's. It's his battle to deal with. Yeah. Yeah. And if he didn't get the help and even if he got the help, it may not have helped. No. You cannot control everything in your life. And sometimes things turn out badly.

[00:41:49] And that's what Rachel is learning in this. Now, I still have a problem with Joe. Yeah. Who, even though he gets shamed by the figments of women that he sees along the way over and over again, he never really cares that much. Yeah. It's like they were going to give him a taste of his own medicine of how he's such a womanizer. So these women were hitting on him and basically treating him like the piece of meat, the way he treats women.

[00:42:18] And the fact that, you know, like he's filming them without their consent, it kind of like that's what they were. I think that's where they were going. Sure. But it fell really flat. It really did because he just didn't, you know, oh, it's happening. And then all of a sudden here's his fiance and she's and he's like, oh, I didn't know you were coming. He had no effect, no lasting effect whatsoever. No.

[00:42:43] And all it was is, you know, she broke up with him because she found all the tapes. And he wasn't that affected by it. Nope. Because then. He just didn't really. I mean, maybe that was what they were going for in the movie is that Joe just is that shallow. Maybe. I mean, it was kind of overshadowed by Nelson. Sure. Sure. That is true. Because Nelson realized he can't get away from his. Nelson, such a drama queen. I mean.

[00:43:12] Joe didn't even have his chance to do anything. I know. And it's like, OK, here we go. Here we go. We have the first one, Nelson, big trauma, big issue, big ghost beating his ass. Little ghost. A little ghost beating his ass. Then we have. Big time. Then we. Then David goes under and David brings back a little girl who taunts his ass, but he fixes it because he apologizes. He's overall a good guy.

[00:43:42] Yeah. Kids do cruel things. They do. Doesn't mean it's right. Doesn't mean they don't need to be reprimanded or tried to be changed because you don't do that shit. And then Joe goes under and his is even less. Yes. He just gets memories of all the women he's fucked and looked at. And then he's got wherever he goes, he sees his videos and then the women start to torment him. And yeah, the only way to stop that was obviously the fiance.

[00:44:11] But then Rachel goes under and it's her dad and there's nothing bad. She thinks she's he's after her, but really just he wants to say it's not your fault. Hey, perfect. But it's like less, less, less, less. Sure. And we get to Oliver. Who's he's like, fuck you people. Oliver's just fine. He's got no problem. He's like, uh, uh, I don't worry about my head. You see my head. You see this. I am good. This is where it all needs to stay right here. I don't need your sodium. Yeah. He doesn't. He doesn't want to die at all.

[00:44:40] I think he talks about it at first, but then he's like, no, I'm not doing that. Yeah. Well, I mean, at first, none of them wanted. They're like, no, no. I mean like when they're bartering. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's like, oh yeah, well, no. Yeah. No, he doesn't do it at all. He's okay. He's just fine. He's like, yeah, I'm good. He has no guilt to atone for. Yeah. Yeah. I don't need to die because I didn't do anything wrong ever in all of history. But that is something that they say that Nelson, um, he, on his final push into the flat

[00:45:09] line as we're going to call it, I guess, uh, Nelson wanted to die. He really did kind of, I think he internalized all that guilt and that's maybe why he was so set to do it in the very first place because there is that part of him probably that didn't want it to work, but didn't want to come back. Well, here's the thing. If you don't want to have that kind of guilt, maybe don't chase a kid into a tree and then throw rocks at him. Yeah.

[00:45:38] But as a kid, you don't, and, and especially a kid who can't regulate. I mean, I get that, but also like, you know, not saying that he can't, that it was good at all. I'm just saying sometimes things do happen and he didn't intend for him to die. He certainly didn't intend for his dog to die, to be hurt and have to be put down.

[00:46:00] Um, but yeah, I think that, that Nelson overall is not a bad guy, but he spent a whole lot of time. His entire life has probably been spent torturing himself, you know, subconsciously, um, all his life. Oh yeah. And maybe him being a doctor was never about him helping people, but to trying to assuage his guilt. Oh yeah. I'm going to, I'm going to be better and do good for other people so that way I can

[00:46:30] make up for what I did. And that's why you see when, um, I am going to have so much trouble with her. Rachel. Rachel. Damn it. Julia. Can I just call her April? Let's call her Julia. Yeah. Rachel, when she, at the start, when she is talking to people, she is talking to the patients, she's trying to get stories from them about their near death experience. Yeah.

[00:46:56] It's not because of the experiment they're going to do because she isn't even part of that yet. No. But it's because she feels guilty and she wants to speak to her father. She wants to know what she tells the, um, there's an old lady who she talks to and, uh, she just wants to know that her family, the people that she has lost, namely her father, are in a better place is really what she kind of wants to know.

[00:47:23] So that's, so her curiosity about the afterlife just stems from that, not this morbid, what is it over there? Just are they okay? Yeah. And I think in the end, what we see is that while they all fight during this entire thing, ultimately they all come running to save Nelson because they do care about this. And, and think about this too.

[00:47:48] If they think that the childhood traumas that they have amount to anything, think of the traumas they are setting up for themselves by letting someone die over and over again. So if you think you have guilt about the things that you did as a child, think about the things you've done as an adult that you're not proud of, that you hate about yourself for doing,

[00:48:11] and how you self torment because you haven't corrected it or fixed it in some way or stopped doing the thing you're doing. And, and that is where we land with this. It's Nelson's death at the end where he's trying, where they're trying to get him back. Mm-hmm. Isn't so much about him curing himself so much as his friends saving him. Oh yeah, definitely.

[00:48:37] And also, you know, and our, our, our buddy, Oliver Platt, I don't want to go to jail for this piece of shit who can't get his together. I mean, he's not emotionally invested like the rest, of course. Yeah. Because he hasn't. We're going to have to call the police or something, you know. Yeah, because he hasn't had this happen and he keeps telling them he's dead. Stop. But they won't stop. Can't stop. Won't stop. Yeah.

[00:49:02] And Kevin is, David. Yes. Yeah. Is busy trying to revive him with 12 minutes of CPR. I mean, that's a lot, my dudes. 12 minutes of CPR. Yeah. Do you know how many Staying Alives that is? Skyants. Staying Alive is like, what, two minutes, 30 seconds, two minutes, 15 seconds long.

[00:49:29] And you're going to have to sing it so many times in 12 minutes. All I can picture. Six times. About six times. All I can picture is the scene from The Office and Kelly dancing. That's what I'm thinking. Not even Dwight wearing the fucking recessive Annie mask. No, it's fucking, um, it's Kelly dancing. Yeah. So, yeah, that's, this is, this is the thing.

[00:49:55] I mean, we're talking about guilt and trying to deal with it. And some people do it in a healthy way. And these guys did not. But they did it in an extreme way. They did do that. So I guess that counts for something. And it closes on relief. The film ends out on a note of relief rather than fear. I don't know. I guess the emotional fear is something.

[00:50:23] It's not a, it's not a fear of, of being killed or a fear of being chased. It's a fear of having to face your worst moments. Yeah. And, and having to deal with, with, with the guilt that we have, we can't all go in flatline, bring our ghost back and then confront them. It's not logical, nor is it plausible, but you can deal with the ghosts of your past and

[00:50:51] your guilt by talking to people, by finding some type of a creative outlet, finding a way to maybe give to others who are in a similar situation or be a better person. I mean, there's a lot. Write it out. Sing it out. Talk it out. There's so many ways you can deal with your guilt. Well. And it does not revolve around murdering yourself. In this movie, though, the haunting isn't a punishment. It's an invitation.

[00:51:21] Really, it is. At least for Nelson. Yeah. Michael Douglas was one of the producers. Oh, I didn't know that. Just to let you know. Because I did some facts and trivia, which you can look up. Yeah, but still, it's fun to talk about. The cinematographer, which is Jean de Bont, or Yon de Bont, sorry, who went on to direct speed. Oh, okay. And the movie came out in 1990, which is the same year as, guess what?

[00:51:51] Jacob's Ladder. And Ghost. Okay. So we have afterlife stories abound in the 90s. You know, that's what I noticed. You know what? Because everybody thought they were going to die in the 90s. Well, there's that. It was like Y2K, but 10 years earlier. I think a lot of it. Don't take my jokes. I have a really bad joke, but I'm not going to tell it right now. So, because it's a joke I heard on a video this morning and honestly has nothing to do with our movie. So, yeah, I'll save it for a time where it comes in handy.

[00:52:21] So Julia and Kiefer got engaged during that time. I forgot they were dating. Yeah. So they were dating and they got engaged around 1990. Mm-hmm. But they called it off a year later. Probably a good idea. Yeah. Kiefer has a lot of issues, but I understand that too. He plays that part well. Yeah. I don't know. There's just, there's a lot about this movie that kind of... Oh, yeah. That's what I was saying.

[00:52:50] So there's a lot of universal mind when it comes to movies. You know, I noticed that too, where like there'll be one movie that comes out and the next thing you know, like three of the same flavor. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I agree. And you're like, what? Well, I think it's just that they kind of come around in cycles. So just because they wrote it doesn't mean it got optioned anytime soon. It could have been sitting there for years. Yeah. And then... And the minute someone else is making something and they find out all these big names are involved. Yep.

[00:53:20] They may rush a production. Mm-hmm. And sometimes it's just the way it hits. The 90s, we're coming off of Ghostbusters and... Yeah, which was, you know, comical, you know. We have a lot of like afterlife stuff happening before 1990. Mm-hmm. So I can see why you would suddenly start hitting these more adult, serious-minded films. Yes. That would hit more into the, you know, afterlife-affected things.

[00:53:50] I can see that. Yeah. I can see that as a reason. Did you know that the remake of this, it's a standalone sequel, in 2017 was with Elliot Page and Kiefer Sutherland returning as a different role? Oh, wow. Yeah. Hmm. Weird. So now I think we have to watch it. Probably. And then we can talk about it. Yeah. Because now I'm curious. Maybe next Halloween when we need a not-so-scary movie. No, because they probably actually made it scary. They could have.

[00:54:20] Because that's what they do. Possibly. Unfortunately, they take a movie that I find, what was it? I saw it the other day. It was like a sequel, not a sequel, but like a remake. And it was like, they take these movies now and they'll have a little bit of like levity. Not levity, but like, it's vanilla. And then they make it, not even dark chocolate. They make it dark chocolate with razor blades. And you're like, ugh. Okay. Yeah. Do you have an example? I had one, but my brain skipped a joint and, you know.

[00:54:49] Okay. Well, if you think about it, you can just shut it out. Literally, I jumped over that rail. So, it is now time for the stitch count. We're going to take this movie. We're going to give it some drugs. We're going to watch as that line just peters out. And then we're going to pump it full of electricity and hope it doesn't turn into a shredded rag. Okay. So, let's start with the Castellini test.

[00:55:19] This is going to go badly. There have to be at least two named women characters with at least five lines of dialogue each. Well, that ain't happening. Not true. Winnie talked. Oh, yeah. She did talk. Okay. We'll give, we'll do Winnie then. So, Winnie and Rachel. Right. Okay. From friends. Yep. Those characters must have a conversation, not necessarily with the other woman, either not about their partner or with their partner, future or current, and not about their relationship.

[00:55:46] Well, that's true because, I mean, they really, nobody, nobody, I mean, we didn't even know Kevin Bacon and Julia Roberts had hooked up until he kissed her. They weren't. They just kissed. Yeah. They weren't hooking up in the film. Oh. I thought they were. I looked it up. I thought we missed something when we were dealing with the dogs. Okay, so we didn't miss it then. Yeah, no. We did not. So, no, there's no relationships. Like, not like that. Yeah. Well, I mean. And most, and her conversations were about the thing they were doing and not about relationships.

[00:56:14] Yeah, the only one who talks about relationships is Joe. Yeah. At least one of the women has to be integral to the plot, meaning that if she were written out of the film, it could not reach the same ending. Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say something harsh here. The movie didn't need Julia Roberts. I don't think it needed her. And not to say that, and there's nothing against her. I'm just saying that they did not give her a big enough part to make her vital. Anybody could have done that. Even Oliver Platt could have literally played that part.

[00:56:42] It could have been his dad who had killed himself. It could, I mean, there was nothing in her role that made her vital. Okay. So, I'm in a bit of crisis here because I really wanted her to be the reason. I want her to be there. I want her to. I'm trying to, I'm desperately trying to think of a reason why she's integral to the plot. She's the one who could put him under. And that was it. But again. Anybody could put him under. Anybody could have done that.

[00:57:12] Because, let's face it. They're all in med school. Yeah, they were all, no one was like dedicated to one thing or the other. No. They just decided they were going to do one thing or the other. And then they all switched up. Mm-hmm. Ah, God. So, I mean, again, this is not against her. She has like the better story. She does. But again, that's not a story. I mean, other than Kevin Bacon. Kevin Bacon always gets a good story. I mean, he does.

[00:57:38] But I mean, like that is not a, her storyline could have been given to Oliver Platt or anybody else. And I hate to say that, but it was just, she is so much bigger than this role. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not happy about that. No. Why am I unhappy about that? Because you want, because it's Julia Roberts and you want her to be the Erin Brockovich of every movie she's in. Usually I'm the first one to like knock down a Castellini test. I know. And you have to pick it back up again. But now I'm the one scrambling. I know.

[00:58:07] Okay. I really feel bad about this. I do too. I feel bad about it, but it is not. So it's not going to pass to Castellini. No, it's not. That really sucks. I know. I don't know why I need that, but okay, it's not going to, it's not going to pass. Nope. Sorry. That's all right. We're going to move on. Damn, I got to get over that. I'm very emotionally invested in that. No, because again, Julia Roberts is better than that. And they didn't give her, I know she was new, but she's, she'd already proven. She's not really new.

[00:58:37] No, no, no, no, no. But I mean like, you know what I mean about new. At that moment, she had a couple, she had good movies. And so that's why I'm saying like, she was a relatively, she was a young actress. Yeah. But they could have given her more because she'd proven her chops before that. It wasn't. Yeah. I think that she needed a bigger role in the reason why. Mm-hmm. That's, that's it. That's an. She didn't really have that much dialogue considering. I mean, it is what it is. I know. I can't generate something that doesn't exist.

[00:59:06] I just, it bothers me. Yeah. But I, that's why I call, let's seize it. This is the horror for me in this spooky season. So inclusivity and gaze. Score of zero or one. It's an on or off situation. You got a maximum of four points on this one. Mm-hmm. Rachel diversity. Rachel. I said Rachel. You did. I finally got the name right, but it's wrong. Racial diversity with agency, not just background. Yes.

[00:59:34] Because of, you know, Winnie and there's a lot of, of, of diversity. Maybe not at the college. Not in the main characters, but they're not background either. No. Winnie's not a background character. She's not a main character. She's a secondary, but she's still, she's important. Her family, the kids in the school, you know, there's, so, I mean, yeah. So it does have some racial diversity. It's not enough, but it's there. It never is. This is where I think it's going to fail out.

[01:00:04] Oh, yeah. LGBTQ presence that isn't a punchline or tragedy. There is no presence. There's not a presence, which is unfortunate. I mean, you had a Baldwin right there. He could have, he could have just been filming guys. I know. He could have been doing a little bit of everybody. Yeah. Why not? Age, body type, or disability treated with dignity? There were, there were no body type. I mean. Age was definitely there. Disability was there in the hospital. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's true.

[01:00:34] And they treated them well. Yeah. And body types too. So, yeah, I guess. I mean, we're grasping there, but yeah, we're going to count that. We'll give it. They didn't go out of their way to treat them without dignity. That's because they're going to lose on the next one. Really? Camera gaze, not relentlessly sexualized or punitive? Not to any of the main cast, but Joe's freaking memories and his having sex with everybody. That's not, that's not the camera.

[01:01:04] No, it's not the camera gaze. No, you're right. No, no, no. In fact, they didn't show anything when they did it. That's true. No, you're right. You're right. So there's no, yeah. Yeah. I know you tend to personalize the camera gaze. I do. Yeah, it's not. It's more character. The camera actually itself. Okay. The view of the camera. So yeah, so we got that. So the tremors index. Okay. It goes from zero below tremors, fails the basics to four exceeds tremors, rare, powerful, and intentional. Now here's the thing.

[01:01:33] We have Kevin Bacon in this film. I know. He gets a zero. I'm going to be angry as shit. I'm not going to give him a zero. I was actually going to give him a one. I was planning on doing a one. Okay. So I'm going to say it's a two. Okay. And I'll tell you why. Why? Because I want it. I need this win. Just give it. Just give it to me. Just give me. Give me the two. Okay. Diverse characters are allowed to be good at things.

[01:02:03] I think they are. Winnie does have a very successful life, even though she says she hated school. Right. And so does Rachel. Rachel's good at what she does. That's true. In spite of it being a male-dominated area. Yeah. I tend to not think about the white women in movies. When we talk about diversity, I tend to, because being the white woman, I tend to forget that we're part of that diversity. Welcome to marginalization. No. Because I am a white woman.

[01:02:32] I tend to ignore that because I'm always focused on people of color who are actually being marginalized. Yeah. And while I know, I tend to work in a career where women, we're all paid poorly, regardless of our gender. We're all paid shitty because we're educators. So I don't see and I don't experience a lot of that underpaying or undermining because you're a woman. And it's not because I don't think it exists.

[01:03:01] It's just, it's not part of my immediate, like, in front of me. So I focus on the people who I know are actually getting treated poorly based on skin color and being diverse. So I tend to forget white women. That's totally fair. Let me just ask you one thing. Okay. How's your health care? I know. I know. But I just, I know. But again, I don't. I'm saying acknowledge your own marginalization so we can move on. It's hard for me to do that when I know that there are women who die because of their skin

[01:03:31] color just by giving birth. Sure. But they're also willing to let you die for being a woman. So I just, I just, it's because I know I have the, the, the mayonnaise colored privilege. Sure. But that's a privilege. I know. But because I have that, I forget about the female aspect of it. So I just try to focus on. Don't forget about that. It's important. I just want to support people who. It's easy enough to gaslight people into believing that they're not marginalized because they have a privilege when there are different levels in this case.

[01:04:00] And I understand that. But like I said, I'm more focused on the people who I know are like, I visually are seeing getting treated poorly. I've seen you get treated poorly. I'm just saying. I mean, I know. But again, my. All right. My issues. Survival and problem solving matter more than ego. Yeah. Not matter more than Egon. Egon. No. Matter more than ego. It should never matter more than Egon. I know. Because Egon is. Man, we could have made that joke with Ghostbusters. I know. I can't believe we didn't do that. We didn't.

[01:04:30] We're idiots. Well, we have Ghostbusters 2. We didn't have this during the. We're due for Ghostbusters 2 anyway. We didn't have the term. Oh, no. We did Ghostbusters 2. Ghostbusters 3. Yeah. We have other ones. We have 5 and 6. Yeah. And 7. And 84. So survival and problem solving matter more than ego. What do you say? Let's say ye. Well, I mean, I think at first his intent.

[01:04:58] Nelson's intentions are egotistical. They seem egotistical, but I think that they were driven by something much deeper than that. And the ego was actually a cover for it. But when they're trying to bring them back and they panic because they don't want to come back. Because they have to fight to bring every single person back. I think that's where it's not about who's a better person. Like you said, they're kind of interchangeable in that moment when they're trying to bring them back to life.

[01:05:26] Keep in mind, too, David got kicked out of med school. Yeah, right. Because he was saving someone. Yes. Not for his ego, because he was worried she would die. Yeah, because the doctor wasn't there yet. And the nurse was like, well, who's going to do the operation? He's like, I am, you know. So, yeah, you're right. So I think, yeah, no, no one is diminished. I mean, yeah, no one is diminished. No, survival. I'm reading the wrong sentence. I know you are. Survival and problem solving matter more than ego. Yes. Okay.

[01:05:53] No one is diminished to make someone else look cool. I don't think that happens either. No, it certainly doesn't. No. They have a lot of egos running around in there, but none of them are directed at each other. No. I mean, like, there's the bullying, but that's when they're kids. And that's not ego. That's just little kids are assholes. Yeah. But the adults, the main members of this.

[01:06:15] And as an educator, I feel I am an expert and I have the right to say, also with an undergrad in psychology, that children are assholes to each other. I mean, I could just tell you that just from being a person. No, but I feel like as a, I can, I can say this as an expert. Okay. I just don't get to say I'm an expert at many things in my life. Let me have this. Pedagogy.

[01:06:42] Michelle is an expert in her field in child assholeness. Yes. So I don't know what else to do with that. I love them, but they're little shits. Is no one diminished to make someone else look cool? No one has diminished to make someone else look cool. Okay. So we can say this is a two. I will give it tremors adjacent. Yes. I finally, I won one. I needed to win. So we have a five out of nine. Not horrible. No.

[01:07:10] It's respectable, especially for something from the nineties. It's respectable. I was trying to do the Chicago thing and it didn't work. I don't know what you were trying to do, but okay. Merry sunshine. Oh, okay. So am I ending this or not? Yeah, go for it. Go for it. At the time of recording, this is Halloween. Woo! I just want everybody to know that I hope you have a nice, safe Halloween.

[01:07:37] And by the time you're listening to this, that day has already passed by two days. Yes. So, um. Don't forget to vote. If you ate something or ate too much, uh, that's on you. And, uh, stop doing that. I mean, I hope you have fun plans for Halloween. We are going to play some spooky games and eat candy. That's true. I want you to, uh, have a great rest of the year. I hope things turned out in the voting that you needed it to. Mm-hmm. Because we desperately need a win.

[01:08:07] Yes. And the burr months are almost over. And once the burr months are over, it's going to be 27. Sure. And, uh, yeah, we're coming up on more holidays. This is my favorite holiday. Mm-hmm. But we're coming up to other holidays. I just love you guys. Yep. You guys keep us going. So, just want you to know that. Thanks for visiting with us for Flatliners 1990. That's Cozy Quilt Cinema. I'm Beth and that is Michelle. Hi.

[01:08:36] Thanks for being in the blanket fort. If this episode stirred something up like a ghost from the past, come tell us about it at CozyQuiltCinema.com. There you can find us on Instagram and BooSky. If you're new here, stick around, like Spider-Man, and subscribe. And if you're already one of us, one of us. You didn't do it with me. Yeah, rating helps more than you'd think. We can't wait to see you right here in the crypt next week.

[01:09:04] And don't forget to check out our other podcast, Between Myth and Belief, where we talk about all things creepy and weird. And we did a special Halloween episode for that. You can find us on Myth and Belief on Instagram and Blue Sky. And you can also find us at CozyQuiltCinema.com. So, until next time... Oh, I forget. I don't have anything for this movie. I did, and I forgot. What was I going to say? Crap. Screw you! Oh, no, it's Tremors.

[01:09:34] Two dollars! I want my two dollars! That's better off dead. I know. Damn it, David. Bye. Bye. I still don't understand why you stopped us. Something happened to me on the L today. Something very strange. That's why you stopped us. Listen to me. There was this girl. Winnie Hicks, I think it was. I was in elementary school with her. We used to make fun of her, alright? I was on the train. And I heard someone call me names. I turned around, and I swear to God! She was standing right in front of me. Still only ten years old.

[01:10:04] Well, maybe it was a hallucination. Maybe you fell asleep? Thoughts somehow triggered by submerged guilt? No, no, I was not asleep. Guys, I've seen some odd things from my past, too. I thought it might be brain damage. In your case, it probably is.