Beth and Michelle dance their way through the glitz, the glamour, and the surprisingly feminist undercurrents of the 2002 cinematic musical, Chicago. They'll unpack their deepest feelings about Velma, Roxie, and cultural injustice. Prepare for show tunes, sharp wit, and maybe a little existential angst.
The link to the discussed Jerry Orbach performance of “All I Care About” is Here.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:16 Music.
00:00:16 --> 00:00:21 Hey, friends. It's time once again for Once More With Feelings. I'm Michelle.
00:00:21 --> 00:00:27 And I'm Beth. And we are a podcast that talks about our feelings and watches
00:00:27 --> 00:00:31 movies and then talks about them some more. Yes. All the feelings.
00:00:32 --> 00:00:37 So, Michelle. Yes. At the time of recording, it is your birthday weekend.
00:00:37 --> 00:00:39 Oh, God. How do you feel about that?
00:00:39 --> 00:00:41 Old. You feel old? Yes.
00:00:41 --> 00:00:45 One year older or like much older than last year? I don't like odd numbers,
00:00:45 --> 00:00:48 and I'm turning an odd number, and I don't like odd numbers.
00:00:48 --> 00:00:52 I'm with you on that. I kind of don't like it either. I like to have even numbers. Yeah.
00:00:53 --> 00:00:58 I don't know why it makes things just a little bit off for me for a whole year,
00:00:58 --> 00:01:00 because I don't like odd numbers.
00:01:00 --> 00:01:03 Yeah, well, 23 isn't a bad age, so you'll be fine.
00:01:04 --> 00:01:09 23 with, let's see, 27 years experience.
00:01:11 --> 00:01:16 We call that level 27 thing. Or 28 years experience, something like that. I don't freaking know.
00:01:17 --> 00:01:22 Again, when you go from like one classroom where you're working with people
00:01:22 --> 00:01:25 who are a little bit older than you or just about your age and you all get each
00:01:25 --> 00:01:29 other's jokes to now I'm working with people who I could have birthed.
00:01:30 --> 00:01:34 Yeah, well, that's how it works. Yeah, it's a little off-putting.
00:01:34 --> 00:01:37 I mean, some of my bosses are half my age.
00:01:38 --> 00:01:42 It's just off-putting. And like I said, I make references and nobody gets them.
00:01:42 --> 00:01:47 Yeah well they were not going to I know and I hate that we didn't get the references
00:01:47 --> 00:01:52 our parents I make jokes all day long and I feel like I'm just you know.
00:01:54 --> 00:02:00 I'm no longer the cool kid I mean to be honest though they're a different nerd
00:02:00 --> 00:02:05 if they're a nerd everybody's got a different nerddom they're still young enough to not,
00:02:06 --> 00:02:09 want to admit that they're nerdy. Maybe one of them.
00:02:09 --> 00:02:13 I mean, I was nerdy all my life, and I enjoyed it. I never even thought about
00:02:13 --> 00:02:16 the fact that nerds were a pejorative. I know.
00:02:16 --> 00:02:22 I mean, I did. I knew it was something people were definitely bullied for being.
00:02:22 --> 00:02:31 But also, it took me growing up to realize I didn't give a shit. I like what I like.
00:02:32 --> 00:02:35 No, I get that. And, you know, I got tired of hiding it, because I did.
00:02:35 --> 00:02:36 I would get embarrassed of things.
00:02:36 --> 00:02:40 I mean, the fact that, and it's funny because we were just talking about this
00:02:40 --> 00:02:42 today because we're talking about Barbie dolls at work, weirdly,
00:02:42 --> 00:02:50 that I had so many Barbie dolls that were in practically mint condition growing up.
00:02:50 --> 00:02:53 And then I had my She-Ra castle and my She-Ra dolls.
00:02:53 --> 00:02:57 And when I turned 12, I had a big sleepover.
00:02:58 --> 00:03:01 And the girls at my sleepover made fun of me for having them.
00:03:01 --> 00:03:04 So I gave them all to my sister, who is seven years younger than me.
00:03:05 --> 00:03:10 And my sister, I say within the year, destroyed them all.
00:03:10 --> 00:03:16 Yes, again. I'm pretty sure she still has that Barbie head on a keychain that
00:03:16 --> 00:03:18 she painted purple and cut the hair off of.
00:03:19 --> 00:03:21 I'm pretty sure she still has that. That was my favorite Barbie.
00:03:21 --> 00:03:25 Sounds a bit spiteful. That's her.
00:03:26 --> 00:03:31 So how do you feel about that? About the Barbies? I'm still pissed.
00:03:32 --> 00:03:36 About getting older. I mean, it's... About your birthday, how do you feel about
00:03:36 --> 00:03:38 your birthday? How do I feel about my birthday? I mean, it's my birthday.
00:03:38 --> 00:03:41 We had a big to-do last year. Yeah, but I turned 50 last year,
00:03:41 --> 00:03:43 so I wanted a big to-do. It was a good big to-do.
00:03:44 --> 00:03:47 To-do, yeah. We did an escape room, and that was fun.
00:03:47 --> 00:03:50 And we escaped, by the way. We did escape. We did make it out. No one died. We're here.
00:03:51 --> 00:03:54 It was Clue-themed, and that made me happy because, you know, I love Clue.
00:03:55 --> 00:04:00 And we spent it with the kids. Yeah. It was nice. Mexican restaurant.
00:04:01 --> 00:04:05 We should have done Clue. So it would have been funny doing Clue on my birthday.
00:04:05 --> 00:04:09 Oh yeah, that would have been a good tie in. That would have been funny, but we did not do Clue.
00:04:09 --> 00:04:13 We can't because you locked us in. I locked us in with the trivia that nobody
00:04:13 --> 00:04:16 answers. Y'all need to start answering these questions.
00:04:16 --> 00:04:20 Y'all, I give them out. So I want you guys to answer. I want you guys to try
00:04:20 --> 00:04:22 to figure it out. It makes it fun for me.
00:04:23 --> 00:04:27 So what is it that we're going to be talking about today?
00:04:28 --> 00:04:34 Well, if you could guess from our clues last week that it was Richard Gere who
00:04:34 --> 00:04:39 spent three months learning how to tap dance for a scene that he filmed in a
00:04:39 --> 00:04:41 very short period of time,
00:04:41 --> 00:04:45 like half a day, then you would be right if you guessed Chicago,
00:04:47 --> 00:04:51 the 2002 Rob Marshall directed film.
00:04:52 --> 00:05:00 Yeah, so Chicago is a 2002 American musical black comedy film based on the 1975
00:05:00 --> 00:05:06 stage Jazz Age Musical, which in turn originated in the 1926 play.
00:05:08 --> 00:05:14 Aha. Aha. That's where your thing came from. I didn't want to spoil it for you. Oh, yeah.
00:05:14 --> 00:05:18 Well, I mean, because they made a film in 1927 from it, and that was the one
00:05:18 --> 00:05:20 that we were just looking at because I did not know it.
00:05:20 --> 00:05:27 It explores the themes of celebrity, scandal, and corruption in Chicago during the Jazz Age. Yes.
00:05:27 --> 00:05:33 Hasn't changed much since the Jazz Age. The film stars an ensemble cast led
00:05:33 --> 00:05:38 by Renee Zellweger, Catherine Zeta-Jones, and Richard Gere.
00:05:39 --> 00:05:45 Chicago centers on Roxy Hart and Velma Kelly, two murderers who find themselves
00:05:45 --> 00:05:49 in jail together awaiting trial in 1920s Chicago.
00:05:50 --> 00:05:57 Roxy, a housewife, and Velma, a vaudevillian, fight for the fame that will keep them from the gallows.
00:05:57 --> 00:06:02 The film marks the feature directorial debut of Rob Marshall,
00:06:02 --> 00:06:05 who also choreographed the film. I did not know that.
00:06:05 --> 00:06:08 I didn't know that either because he did other films.
00:06:09 --> 00:06:16 Yeah. And was adapted by screenwriter Bill Condon with music by John Kander or John Kander?
00:06:17 --> 00:06:20 I think it's Kander. I think Kander, I think. And lyrics by Fred Ebb.
00:06:21 --> 00:06:25 Yeah, Rob Marshall, he also did Into the Woods, The Second Mary Poppins.
00:06:25 --> 00:06:27 That makes total sense then.
00:06:27 --> 00:06:31 Of course he did. He did The New Little Mermaid, and he did Memoirs of a Geisha.
00:06:31 --> 00:06:35 He did a few other things, but those were the— So, he is musical theater,
00:06:35 --> 00:06:37 then. Yeah, he does a lot of musical theater.
00:06:37 --> 00:06:44 Now, the movie is—or the play was written by Maureen Dallas-Watkins,
00:06:44 --> 00:06:47 and she was a journalist in Chicago. ago.
00:06:48 --> 00:06:55 And she was inspired by the trials of Beulah Annan, Annan, Annan?
00:06:55 --> 00:06:58 I'm not sure how to say that. A-N-N-A-N.
00:06:58 --> 00:07:03 And Belva Gartner and these two women were accused of murder in the 1920s.
00:07:03 --> 00:07:08 I believe that, so Belva is the Velma Kelly character.
00:07:08 --> 00:07:17 She was a cabaret singer who, Belva was a cabaret singer, and she is the Velma Kelly of the situation.
00:07:17 --> 00:07:21 And Beulah was the inspiration for Roxy Hart.
00:07:22 --> 00:07:29 And when Watkins, she was just like trying to satirize the sensational newspaper
00:07:29 --> 00:07:35 slash court hearings of the time because it did get a bit crazy.
00:07:36 --> 00:07:40 And I know that IMDB had a little excerpt about it as well.
00:07:41 --> 00:07:44 And I'm going to read that to you really quick. I know y'all can look it up
00:07:44 --> 00:07:46 yourselves, but you know, why do that when someone's going to read it to you?
00:07:47 --> 00:07:51 So it says, the play Chicago was Maureen Dallas Watkins' retelling of two very
00:07:51 --> 00:07:56 public murder trials that occurred in Chicago in 1924, those of Beulah Sharif
00:07:56 --> 00:07:59 Annan and Belva Gartner.
00:07:59 --> 00:08:03 Watkins covers these trials for the Chicago Tribune and wrote the character
00:08:03 --> 00:08:06 of Mary Sunshine as a self portrait.
00:08:06 --> 00:08:10 There's something about Mary Sunshine I will get into in a little bit, too. I'm,
00:08:11 --> 00:08:19 Belva, she had a really less glitzy fate than Velma Kelly, but she was acquitted
00:08:19 --> 00:08:24 and went on to have a few other run-ins with the law, but ended up living a semi-normal life.
00:08:24 --> 00:08:29 She died of natural causes in California in 1965 at the age of 80,
00:08:30 --> 00:08:36 but Beulah, which is the Roxy Hart character, she had a not-so-good ending.
00:08:36 --> 00:08:42 It's true that she was acquitted of murdering her lover, and she did have a
00:08:42 --> 00:08:44 really good high-paid lawyer to get her out of it.
00:08:45 --> 00:08:50 She did repay her debt by publicly divorcing her husband, even though,
00:08:50 --> 00:08:52 you know, because he's the one who paid for all of this stuff for her.
00:08:53 --> 00:08:59 But she was married like two more times after her death and from tuberculosis, four years later.
00:09:00 --> 00:09:05 Two more times in four years and then died of tuberculosis. So yeah, Yeah.
00:09:05 --> 00:09:10 The thing I thought was interesting is I've actually I love plays.
00:09:10 --> 00:09:14 It is like one of my my things. And I used to live closer to New York.
00:09:14 --> 00:09:18 So I got to see a few Broadway plays. But Chicago was never one I got to see.
00:09:19 --> 00:09:23 So I never I don't know what the actual play is and the differences between
00:09:23 --> 00:09:25 the movie and the play. And apparently there are a few.
00:09:26 --> 00:09:30 But Mary Sunshine is actually in
00:09:30 --> 00:09:32 the play according to what I had read supposed to be
00:09:32 --> 00:09:37 portrayed by a man in drag where you don't know that they are in drag until
00:09:37 --> 00:09:41 the end when Mary Sunshine makes a reference about things aren't always what
00:09:41 --> 00:09:47 they seem and then somebody rips the wig off and it becomes a thing the choice
00:09:47 --> 00:09:50 of Christine Baranski I think it's just because Christine Baranski can sing?
00:09:51 --> 00:09:55 And she couldn't do that kind of, you know, that characterization of Mary Sunshine
00:09:55 --> 00:10:01 is just, you know, and I always thought the name was funny because, you know,
00:10:02 --> 00:10:06 the Mary Sunshine of everything is always like the person who's always seeing
00:10:06 --> 00:10:07 the brighter side of things.
00:10:07 --> 00:10:11 And now seeing like this characterization of, quote unquote,
00:10:12 --> 00:10:15 Mary Sunshine, you do see she does see the brighter side of it,
00:10:15 --> 00:10:17 regardless of what's going on.
00:10:17 --> 00:10:21 She's always looking for, you know, oh, you poor dear.
00:10:21 --> 00:10:28 You know, she's trying to find like the angle of positivity in this horrendous
00:10:28 --> 00:10:32 murder and regardless of who it is.
00:10:32 --> 00:10:36 So I don't know. I just think that it's fascinating where the stories come from.
00:10:36 --> 00:10:39 And I'd love to do some more research on these two women.
00:10:39 --> 00:10:42 I didn't because, again, this isn't a history.
00:10:42 --> 00:10:47 As much as I love the trivia and the history, it's not that type of a podcast, folks.
00:10:48 --> 00:10:52 Maybe another time we'll do a historical murderess type of thing.
00:10:53 --> 00:10:58 So how do you feel? How did you feel when you first saw Chicago?
00:10:58 --> 00:11:02 I'm not sure if you saw it when it first came out. So I didn't get to see it
00:11:02 --> 00:11:06 in the theaters because of circumstances in my life at the time.
00:11:07 --> 00:11:12 2002, I had just had my third baby. I was not going anywhere in life.
00:11:12 --> 00:11:16 I mean, it was a big, weird situation in time for me.
00:11:17 --> 00:11:21 But I was excited. I was excited about getting to see this because I hadn't
00:11:21 --> 00:11:25 been able to go see a play in a while.
00:11:26 --> 00:11:33 And it was like, oh, my God, they're doing Chicago. I remember wanting to go see Chicago.
00:11:34 --> 00:11:39 I don't know. Because you didn't grow up in the same area I grew up in. Not at all.
00:11:39 --> 00:11:43 You didn't happen to get commercials for Broadway plays then?
00:11:43 --> 00:11:47 No, we still got commercials for them. You did? Okay, so do you remember the
00:11:47 --> 00:11:50 commercial with B.B. Neuwirth doing all that jazz?
00:11:51 --> 00:11:54 No. I saw that all the time, you know, and I'm like, I know her.
00:11:55 --> 00:12:01 She's from Cheers and Frasier, you know, like I knew B.B. Neuwirth and she was Velma Kelly.
00:12:02 --> 00:12:07 And she's singing all that jazz in the ads and I just wanted to see it so bad.
00:12:07 --> 00:12:13 So when this came out, I wasn't sure how I was going to feel about those actresses.
00:12:13 --> 00:12:17 I didn't know if any of them could really sing. You know, I didn't know Richard Gere can sing.
00:12:17 --> 00:12:21 And I mean, he's not like the best singer, but he's not the worst.
00:12:21 --> 00:12:25 No, actually, he's got a pretty extensive listing of singing.
00:12:25 --> 00:12:32 I think it's because his the affectations that they give Billy Flynn. It's that Chicago.
00:12:33 --> 00:12:37 But that's what he's keeping with. Yeah. He keeps to it pretty, pretty well.
00:12:37 --> 00:12:40 He really does, because it's even with his talking voice. It's there.
00:12:40 --> 00:12:44 They almost hit that transatlantic accent. Yeah, but not quite,
00:12:44 --> 00:12:49 because it isn't exactly that area, and it's not a New York accent that he's singing with.
00:12:49 --> 00:12:54 It is a Chicago accent, which is very different. A lot of people thought it was a New York accent.
00:12:56 --> 00:13:00 Despite the name Chicago. It says it on the label, folks. It says it on the label.
00:13:00 --> 00:13:06 But so I was very, very excited to see this movie.
00:13:06 --> 00:13:11 And I didn't know all the songs. I knew all that jazz.
00:13:12 --> 00:13:16 And I think I knew Mr. Cellophane.
00:13:16 --> 00:13:23 And I fell in love with that whole entire soundtrack.
00:13:24 --> 00:13:28 I listened to it all the time.
00:13:29 --> 00:13:34 It was my go-to for house cleaning. It was my go-to for just getting my brain
00:13:34 --> 00:13:36 to reset I would put on Chicago.
00:13:37 --> 00:13:40 Again, I was going through a lot of
00:13:40 --> 00:13:45 shit in my life at that time and it
00:13:45 --> 00:13:49 was definitely something that
00:13:49 --> 00:13:58 pulled me through so as we were watching this I was remembering a lot of like
00:13:58 --> 00:14:04 moments in my head good and bad that I could relate to these songs because of
00:14:04 --> 00:14:08 how often I played the CD.
00:14:09 --> 00:14:14 But it was definitely, I was very excited when I first found out about it.
00:14:14 --> 00:14:18 So how did it make you feel when you first learned about this or got to see it?
00:14:18 --> 00:14:21 I mean, it may surprise you to know I was completely indifferent.
00:14:24 --> 00:14:30 So my taste in musicals runs differently than yours, I think. I am less jazz.
00:14:31 --> 00:14:37 I am more of the, and this is going to be right in the makeup of where I grew
00:14:37 --> 00:14:40 up and everything else, is Music Man.
00:14:40 --> 00:14:43 And if you say Oklahoma, I'm leaving right now.
00:14:43 --> 00:14:47 Oh, I mean, you can leave if you want. No, not really Oklahoma.
00:14:47 --> 00:14:50 I actually have never seen it. I know the songs.
00:14:51 --> 00:14:55 But it was The Music Man. It was Little Shop of Horrors.
00:14:56 --> 00:15:01 You know, it's the kitschy films. Those are the ones that pulled me in.
00:15:02 --> 00:15:05 Yeah. Those are the ones that the music really, like, meant something to me.
00:15:06 --> 00:15:09 The Music Man, because he is a con, but he has a heart of gold.
00:15:09 --> 00:15:11 I mean, I love that, you know, idea. Yeah.
00:15:13 --> 00:15:16 Whereas in Chicago, it is a black comedy.
00:15:16 --> 00:15:21 And when they when they're saying that black comedy is not it's dark in the
00:15:21 --> 00:15:23 way that, you know, death is associated with it.
00:15:24 --> 00:15:27 And in many ways, and it's really cavalier about it.
00:15:28 --> 00:15:33 But it really is, though. When I saw it, I was like, oh, this is,
00:15:33 --> 00:15:40 for one, very surprised Catherine Zeta-Jones could sing and dance. Yeah. Had no idea.
00:15:41 --> 00:15:43 Yeah, because everybody, yeah, like you were saying, everybody did their own
00:15:43 --> 00:15:45 singing, own dancing. Right.
00:15:45 --> 00:15:50 I was struck, because the first time I saw her was in Mask of Zorro.
00:15:51 --> 00:15:55 Mm-hmm. Excellent film. Loved it. Except very sexist, but still loved it. Oh, yeah, definitely.
00:15:56 --> 00:16:01 But she is so dainty there. Mm-hmm. And in this, she is built like a shit brick house.
00:16:01 --> 00:16:05 Her and Renee Zellweger. Did you see those muscles on her arms?
00:16:05 --> 00:16:07 Well, yeah, but she's still very petite.
00:16:08 --> 00:16:10 Oh, she's very tiny. Catherine Zeta-Jones is like built like very,
00:16:11 --> 00:16:13 like I was like, she is very broad here.
00:16:13 --> 00:16:21 And I don't know if it's because Renee Zellweger is so small in stature and in girth. Probably.
00:16:21 --> 00:16:29 She's so lithe that Catherine Zeta-Jones just looks, in comparison, much stockier.
00:16:29 --> 00:16:32 But she looks, not saying she's not attractive at all.
00:16:32 --> 00:16:39 She is built, I mean, they obviously put a lot of time and effort into sculpting their bodies to be.
00:16:40 --> 00:16:43 Also, all the dancing, that's going to do it. The hours of practice.
00:16:44 --> 00:16:48 So, her hair was, you know, we know Catherine Zeta-Jones always had long hair.
00:16:48 --> 00:16:51 And then you see the Velma Kelly hair, which is that bob, that 20s bob.
00:16:51 --> 00:16:56 And I had always thought it was a wig because, you know, why not a wig?
00:16:56 --> 00:17:00 But she actually cut her hair. They wanted her to keep the long hair,
00:17:00 --> 00:17:04 but she didn't want it getting in the way during the dance scenes because she
00:17:04 --> 00:17:05 knew she was going to dance.
00:17:06 --> 00:17:10 So part of why she's a little bit thick, though, is because she was pregnant.
00:17:11 --> 00:17:13 Okay. Yeah, she was pregnant. No, I was just struck by, like,
00:17:13 --> 00:17:15 how stout she was. Oh, no, no, no.
00:17:15 --> 00:17:19 She's not thick. Definitely not like a judgment of her body,
00:17:19 --> 00:17:25 but I'm just saying I noticed that she was so, like, I was like, is she bodybuilding?
00:17:25 --> 00:17:28 Is she, like, you know, really built?
00:17:29 --> 00:17:31 And Renee is so...
00:17:31 --> 00:17:35 Lie yeah she is her musculature really
00:17:35 --> 00:17:38 aims towards compactness you
00:17:38 --> 00:17:42 know and honestly i have to give her a lot of credit because i know that at
00:17:42 --> 00:17:47 the time and i do remember this she got a lot of shit because of she had just
00:17:47 --> 00:17:52 had she was heavy for bridget jones in 2001 right and then she lost like 30
00:17:52 --> 00:17:58 something pounds to do roxy heart and then shortly thereafter gained the weight back for.
00:17:59 --> 00:18:02 Bridget jones that's gonna kill your body but just
00:18:02 --> 00:18:05 murder your but she did it with she
00:18:05 --> 00:18:10 did it very smartly she was doing aerobic exercise she was eating very specific
00:18:10 --> 00:18:15 foods she wasn't like eating just to gain the weight she was eating specific
00:18:15 --> 00:18:20 foods to help her healthy gain weight i just remember like all of the the fat
00:18:20 --> 00:18:24 shaming assholes out there talking about you know the weight gain the weight loss, the weight gain,
00:18:25 --> 00:18:29 when now looking back and actually doing my research and learning about it,
00:18:29 --> 00:18:33 she did it very healthy, very controlled.
00:18:33 --> 00:18:37 She didn't make herself unhealthy for it. So I have to give her credit because
00:18:37 --> 00:18:39 I know that that's a problem with a lot of actresses.
00:18:40 --> 00:18:43 It's just very hard to do that to your body no matter how you do it.
00:18:43 --> 00:18:47 So it's a dedication to your craft or to your art. Oh, definitely.
00:18:47 --> 00:18:53 And she's always been. I would love to see the movie she did for Judy Garland.
00:18:53 --> 00:18:58 Judy. Oh, yeah. Because, I mean, every ad I've seen for that,
00:18:58 --> 00:19:01 she looks just like Judy Garland.
00:19:03 --> 00:19:08 So, my thing is, I was so surprised that anyone in this cast could sing.
00:19:08 --> 00:19:11 The only one I wasn't surprised was Queen Latifah. Yeah.
00:19:11 --> 00:19:16 You're not surprised by that. Mama Morton. Although, I was surprised by her...
00:19:17 --> 00:19:20 Comportment in the role i mean
00:19:20 --> 00:19:23 she usually like does her thing yeah her thing not
00:19:23 --> 00:19:26 the roles thing she kind of acts outside the
00:19:26 --> 00:19:32 role yeah but she played mama she played you know this to you know to the the
00:19:32 --> 00:19:38 role itself instead of playing against it or outside of it this cast is actually
00:19:38 --> 00:19:42 not saying anything she did was bad in any other role she's had but she does
00:19:42 --> 00:19:46 often just play herself Oh, no, definitely.
00:19:46 --> 00:19:51 I mean. And in this, she really didn't. She did play against that and into the
00:19:51 --> 00:19:56 role itself. And I was pleasantly surprised with that. But this isn't a review.
00:19:57 --> 00:20:02 No, no, no. I don't have an attachment to Chicago. I like the music. Don't get me wrong.
00:20:03 --> 00:20:08 I enjoy the jazz part more than I enjoy the other parts of it.
00:20:08 --> 00:20:11 Yeah. And I don't care for jazz that much.
00:20:11 --> 00:20:15 I mean, I'm not a huge fan of jazz. I wouldn't listen to it independently,
00:20:15 --> 00:20:21 but there's something about that 20s, that rag, the feel.
00:20:22 --> 00:20:26 It wouldn't be the same without the time period.
00:20:27 --> 00:20:35 Yeah, and I think it's very easy for white cis het people to really fall into the 1920s are great.
00:20:35 --> 00:20:44 Because their whole projection is like the famous white people of the time and stuff.
00:20:44 --> 00:20:50 But all I could think about when I was watching this is that the musicians,
00:20:51 --> 00:20:56 the black folk that were there, that were musicians, the one gentleman,
00:20:56 --> 00:21:00 I don't remember his name, he's in everything. The man is in everything.
00:21:01 --> 00:21:05 The band leader? That was Taye Diggs. Yeah, Taye Diggs. he is in everything,
00:21:05 --> 00:21:07 and he's really good at everything he does.
00:21:08 --> 00:21:11 I'm actually surprised, I mean, he didn't have a part here, but he is a good
00:21:11 --> 00:21:15 singer, so obviously he could have done anything. But.
00:21:16 --> 00:21:21 You know, the thing is, you know, I'm looking at it dissecting the movie.
00:21:21 --> 00:21:25 In my head, all the injustices. I'm labeling them out.
00:21:26 --> 00:21:31 I'm parsing them in this scenario because I'm not, it is not my movie.
00:21:32 --> 00:21:37 Yeah, and I get that, you know, because you're looking at it with a historical lens.
00:21:37 --> 00:21:43 I'm looking at it with an analytical view. I'm not looking at it to enjoy the story.
00:21:43 --> 00:21:47 That's the problem is it just doesn't grab me. mine
00:21:47 --> 00:21:50 is about whenever the story comes up it's the injustice of
00:21:50 --> 00:21:53 it and not for the men who died no i'm talking
00:21:53 --> 00:22:02 about when for me the the injustice in chicago is the women the sexuality that
00:22:02 --> 00:22:07 you'd referenced when we were watching it the reason why i said you're seeing
00:22:07 --> 00:22:12 sexuality here is because Because I honestly didn't see it.
00:22:13 --> 00:22:17 It's the mechanism. Sexuality is like a doorknob.
00:22:17 --> 00:22:22 A doorknob is a mechanism to a portal. It is how you get through a door.
00:22:22 --> 00:22:26 It is not the door. It is not the means by which you go through the door.
00:22:27 --> 00:22:31 It's just the thing that opens the door. so so
00:22:31 --> 00:22:34 sexuality there for me defines
00:22:34 --> 00:22:37 that breakdown or that parsing of the injustices
00:22:37 --> 00:22:42 that women face and then we're just talking about cis women here because if
00:22:42 --> 00:22:47 we get into the transness of it all we'll never get through this because 1920s
00:22:47 --> 00:22:53 was horrible for almost everyone except white men so i get i get where you're
00:22:53 --> 00:22:57 coming from and and i'll i want to touch back on that in a second.
00:22:58 --> 00:23:02 I was literally going to say, though, that the, I know I do that all the time,
00:23:02 --> 00:23:03 but I do get back to it eventually.
00:23:04 --> 00:23:06 No, I'm saying I threw a lot at you. No, no, no.
00:23:07 --> 00:23:11 It's fine because I do have so many thoughts right now. I was going to say that
00:23:11 --> 00:23:16 I thought it was a very diverse cast and I thought it was a very diverse movie.
00:23:16 --> 00:23:20 Now, I get what you're saying that, yes, they had all of the people of color
00:23:20 --> 00:23:21 doing these menial jobs,
00:23:21 --> 00:23:24 but the role of like mama morton they wanted
00:23:24 --> 00:23:28 kathy bates for it but kathy bates was doing something else it's from
00:23:28 --> 00:23:34 what i have seen and what i do know of the play it's not always a person of
00:23:34 --> 00:23:38 color playing mama morton she's the matron and even if you look back historically
00:23:38 --> 00:23:43 would the likelihood of the matron in the women's prison of being a black woman
00:23:43 --> 00:23:47 probably highly like not improbable You know,
00:23:48 --> 00:23:50 it's not most likely going to happen. It's going to be a white woman.
00:23:51 --> 00:23:58 And so seeing that and then like the heiress as Lucy Liu, that,
00:23:59 --> 00:24:01 you know, throwing Lucy Liu in there.
00:24:01 --> 00:24:05 Yes, she has a very tiny little part with, I think, like three words.
00:24:05 --> 00:24:09 And a kick to the balls. And a kick to the balls in a triple murder.
00:24:10 --> 00:24:16 But it still, you know, it diversified the cast in a way, even though...
00:24:16 --> 00:24:18 Yeah, this isn't about the casting of the film. Oh, no, no, no,
00:24:18 --> 00:24:20 no. I know you're looking at it historically.
00:24:20 --> 00:24:22 And like I said, I was going to say, I thought it was very diverse.
00:24:23 --> 00:24:31 But again, yes, historically, 1927, Chicago, this would have been the whitest of whitest whites.
00:24:31 --> 00:24:38 And then, yes, the people who were of color would be the people who ran the theater,
00:24:38 --> 00:24:41 the people who were behind the scenes yeah so
00:24:41 --> 00:24:45 if they were in the orchestra and if they worked in the prison
00:24:45 --> 00:24:48 they were either going to be people who were either either
00:24:48 --> 00:24:51 in the prison or working behind the scenes in the prison so
00:24:51 --> 00:24:54 because they weren't going to be the people of any power in
00:24:54 --> 00:25:03 that prison it and and what you were saying about the sexuality of it my point
00:25:03 --> 00:25:08 with that was yes there is sexuality but it is definitely more on the sexist
00:25:08 --> 00:25:11 side but the sexuality in it is more.
00:25:13 --> 00:25:17 So the differences between like when you watch velma kelly dancing in the beginning,
00:25:18 --> 00:25:23 and even when she's doing her dance which she's trying to convince roxy to be her partner,
00:25:25 --> 00:25:32 there is a sexuality to the dance in the sense of the out the clothing there's
00:25:32 --> 00:25:35 a sexualization is what I'm looking for. That's the word.
00:25:35 --> 00:25:40 The movements, the dance, the dances themselves, all that jazz,
00:25:40 --> 00:25:43 there's writhing, there's bodies touching, there's skimpy clothes.
00:25:44 --> 00:25:49 Even though it's the 20s, it's still very, very risque in the ideas of it.
00:25:49 --> 00:25:53 I would say especially because it's in the 20s. Because it's,
00:25:53 --> 00:25:56 yes. Even if it is burlesque, it's still above.
00:25:56 --> 00:26:02 But then you look at the dances and the performances the the the ones that are
00:26:02 --> 00:26:07 i would say pre burlesque yeah you know that's vaudevillian so it's pre burlesque
00:26:07 --> 00:26:09 but yeah but when you look at the the the.
00:26:10 --> 00:26:13 Billy Flynn performances, his songs,
00:26:14 --> 00:26:18 they are, we're not going to talk about, not the, they both reach for the gun,
00:26:18 --> 00:26:24 but when you look at the Billy song, Billy Flynn song, and the Razzle Dazzle
00:26:24 --> 00:26:27 song, they are very sexualized.
00:26:27 --> 00:26:31 But from a man's point of view, it is definitely the male gaze at that point.
00:26:32 --> 00:26:33 You are looking at these women.
00:26:33 --> 00:26:37 The one scene is him leaning on a staircase and it's all the women's asses at
00:26:37 --> 00:26:41 the screen. He's literally riding in a car made of women. Yes.
00:26:41 --> 00:26:44 So he is, this is his fantasy.
00:26:45 --> 00:26:51 So he's the, to me, of all the characters in the play or the movie,
00:26:51 --> 00:26:55 he's the villain in a way because, yes, he's getting them off.
00:26:55 --> 00:26:59 But these are people who actually, I mean, nothing against Kelly and,
00:26:59 --> 00:27:02 I mean, Velma Kelly and Roxy Hart, but they murdered people.
00:27:02 --> 00:27:05 They deserve to be in jail. They murdered people. Yeah, I'm talking,
00:27:05 --> 00:27:09 you know, there's this overview of the movie, okay?
00:27:09 --> 00:27:11 So if you take the movie and you break it down into these little parts,
00:27:11 --> 00:27:16 and we're talking about parts of the movie, the storyline itself.
00:27:16 --> 00:27:22 But then I'm going, you know, also above that going the justice within that time period.
00:27:23 --> 00:27:28 And how when I see that sexuality, it's like a double-edged sword.
00:27:28 --> 00:27:34 It is used against them, but it's also something that works for them. Oh, yes.
00:27:35 --> 00:27:37 So that's what I'm saying. Like, they got to use their sexuality,
00:27:37 --> 00:27:41 like I said, the empoweringness.
00:27:42 --> 00:27:46 Is that a word? Empoweringness? The very thing that empowers them is also the
00:27:46 --> 00:27:48 thing that marginalizes them. Exactly.
00:27:49 --> 00:27:51 That is the issue I have.
00:27:52 --> 00:27:56 I'm never going to get past this need for justice.
00:27:56 --> 00:28:00 Now, whether or not that's social justice or whatever, it's really dependent
00:28:00 --> 00:28:03 on what I'm thinking about, I guess. I don't really know.
00:28:03 --> 00:28:06 I haven't really seen how far it goes.
00:28:06 --> 00:28:09 I mean, I've never really put that much deep thought into the movie Chicago
00:28:09 --> 00:28:12 until now. That's what I'm thinking the entire time.
00:28:12 --> 00:28:17 It's very hard to enjoy a movie where I'm so worried about the injustice of things.
00:28:18 --> 00:28:22 And it's— And me, I'm just bopping along to the tunes. And see,
00:28:22 --> 00:28:25 because they don't necessarily grab me.
00:28:25 --> 00:28:28 Now, I'm not saying they're not earworms, because they are.
00:28:28 --> 00:28:33 I literally have Billy Flynn in my head right now. just the beginning of it. Right.
00:28:33 --> 00:28:39 But for me, it's about the system itself because even in the film,
00:28:39 --> 00:28:42 you see these huge, like,
00:28:42 --> 00:28:46 movements okay and and like the
00:28:46 --> 00:28:49 women in the prison they start competing against each
00:28:49 --> 00:28:52 other out of sheer desperation for
00:28:52 --> 00:28:56 their plight yeah for where they're at now whether they're there there's only
00:28:56 --> 00:29:01 one innocent woman in that prison and she is the one who dies right yeah it's
00:29:01 --> 00:29:06 so everyone but she is not competing with anyone she doesn't try to compete
00:29:06 --> 00:29:10 she asked for his help He ignores her and walks away.
00:29:12 --> 00:29:17 So she doesn't try to form up teams with anybody, but the rest of the women
00:29:17 --> 00:29:20 in there, the one that dies, is the one that does not compete.
00:29:21 --> 00:29:27 That, to me, says a lot about a patriarchal society in which this type of thing
00:29:27 --> 00:29:30 is expected and a component of that society.
00:29:31 --> 00:29:35 Women competing against other women, despite the fact that none of them are
00:29:35 --> 00:29:37 the ones that are marginalizing each other.
00:29:38 --> 00:29:41 No, I completely, completely agree with that.
00:29:42 --> 00:29:46 And it has nothing to do with jazz. I'm just, I can't.
00:29:47 --> 00:29:51 It's really hard to get past that. I'm sorry. I'm just. No, it has.
00:29:52 --> 00:29:56 The jazz is the background, hon. It has nothing to do with action.
00:29:56 --> 00:30:01 No, no, I'm saying like the storyline, the, you know, the Roxy Hart doing her thing.
00:30:01 --> 00:30:06 Because she wants to be famous. And she's overly ambitious where,
00:30:06 --> 00:30:11 honestly, I can't blame Velma Kelly killing her sister and her husband because,
00:30:12 --> 00:30:14 I mean, that would put me over the edge, too. Oh, yeah, no.
00:30:14 --> 00:30:21 I don't blame her. Now, Roxy went about things wrong because Amos was too good for her.
00:30:22 --> 00:30:28 My heart goes to Roxy at the start. At the start. Because, well—,
00:30:28 --> 00:30:35 There are a couple of reasons why. One, Amos, the only reason she's with Amos
00:30:35 --> 00:30:37 is because that society dictates you need a man.
00:30:37 --> 00:30:40 If you don't have a man, you don't have any worth to society.
00:30:43 --> 00:30:49 So my heart doesn't go out to Amos. He is expected to have a wife.
00:30:49 --> 00:30:52 She is expected to be a wife.
00:30:52 --> 00:30:56 Therefore, he has the power in all of this. Even if he doesn't play that,
00:30:57 --> 00:30:59 even if he doesn't realize he has that privilege.
00:31:00 --> 00:31:04 Roxy is a prisoner. She is in a gilded cage. It's a very, it's a,
00:31:04 --> 00:31:08 it's a dingy ass gilded cage, but it's still gilded.
00:31:08 --> 00:31:15 She is trapped within the device of her own sexuality, her own feminism, her, her own body.
00:31:15 --> 00:31:18 Yeah. She has dreams. You see those dreams coming out.
00:31:18 --> 00:31:22 Yes. That's part of the sequence, which that is one of the things I loved about
00:31:22 --> 00:31:30 this movie. I loved how they interspersed the scenes within the reality.
00:31:31 --> 00:31:37 So you start to question, at what point is Roxy daydreaming?
00:31:37 --> 00:31:42 And at what point is she actually on the stage? Because even though you firmly
00:31:42 --> 00:31:46 know she is standing there in a prison cell,
00:31:47 --> 00:31:52 or she's standing there in her apartment, or she's in all the different places,
00:31:53 --> 00:31:57 You still think, but maybe she's thinking of past her.
00:31:58 --> 00:32:00 So, yeah, that's what I'm saying. I was going to actually. Sorry.
00:32:01 --> 00:32:02 No, no, I was literally going to say that.
00:32:02 --> 00:32:07 I always felt that those scenes where she's on stage.
00:32:07 --> 00:32:13 So, you know how at the end of the play, it's her and Velma getting together
00:32:13 --> 00:32:15 and they're on this big stage and they're performing.
00:32:15 --> 00:32:23 That's how I saw those scenes are like the she's reliving her story on stage.
00:32:23 --> 00:32:29 And she's telling the audience so when it would flash to her being on stage that was her,
00:32:29 --> 00:32:32 telling that scene yeah and i don't know
00:32:32 --> 00:32:35 that that's true at all i don't know if that's true at all but i love that
00:32:35 --> 00:32:40 because for me it makes the movie so much more interesting to think that these
00:32:40 --> 00:32:45 are the flashbacks are the reality because she talks to the audience even as
00:32:45 --> 00:32:50 she's singing so you're getting that like my favorite is when she's singing
00:32:50 --> 00:32:53 the roxy heart song and she's like Like, you know,
00:32:53 --> 00:32:57 and, you know, I love you and you love me and I love you for loving me.
00:32:57 --> 00:33:00 And that's because we never got enough love in our childhood.
00:33:00 --> 00:33:02 And that's showbiz. You know, I just love it.
00:33:03 --> 00:33:06 It's just such a give and take. And I love it. So.
00:33:07 --> 00:33:14 I agree. I think that if I get past the upper level stuff where I go the society
00:33:14 --> 00:33:21 or societal issues with being in the past or even now being here now, we all have our issues.
00:33:22 --> 00:33:24 Some are worse than others.
00:33:25 --> 00:33:31 But I think that when you get to the storyline itself and then how it extrapolates
00:33:31 --> 00:33:32 off into societal issues and stuff,
00:33:33 --> 00:33:41 but just the story itself where Roxy gets in trouble because she kills a man who screwed her over.
00:33:41 --> 00:33:44 And this is why I feel for her, because she's already trapped in a marriage.
00:33:45 --> 00:33:46 Believed he was going to help her. Yeah.
00:33:47 --> 00:33:51 She thought he was going to at least get her on stage. So at least she'd be
00:33:51 --> 00:33:56 doing something with her life. Because the ultimate thing is surviving,
00:33:56 --> 00:33:59 surviving is not enough in life.
00:33:59 --> 00:34:04 You can only survive for so long. You have to actually thrive in some way.
00:34:04 --> 00:34:07 You have to find the things that make you want to live.
00:34:09 --> 00:34:15 Surviving isn't living. Surviving is a mode in life. It is not living.
00:34:15 --> 00:34:22 So when Roxy is starting out here, she is in survival mode. And she progresses
00:34:22 --> 00:34:25 through survival mode all through the prison time.
00:34:26 --> 00:34:30 The one time she starts to get power is when you see her change her attitude.
00:34:31 --> 00:34:36 She starts changing about the time she gets arrested.
00:34:37 --> 00:34:42 And you notice that when she starts actually speaking to Amos,
00:34:43 --> 00:34:50 like another person would speak to another person without a gender definition or gender role.
00:34:50 --> 00:34:53 Being assigned she's mad at him she's
00:34:53 --> 00:34:56 pissed at him for being a stool pigeon because he
00:34:56 --> 00:35:00 could have gotten her off yeah but he got mad well
00:35:00 --> 00:35:04 maybe rightfully so but let's face it again they weren't in love she married
00:35:04 --> 00:35:09 him because it was expected yeah and because society said this is what you do
00:35:09 --> 00:35:16 she wanted a life on stage how did he not know that how did amos not know that
00:35:16 --> 00:35:19 Either he never listened to her say it,
00:35:19 --> 00:35:21 or he ignored her when she did say it.
00:35:22 --> 00:35:26 There's no way she just never said anything and just went out on him.
00:35:26 --> 00:35:30 So, you know, this has to be a progression of some kind.
00:35:30 --> 00:35:39 And I really think that when we look at both sides, okay, Velma and Roxy were
00:35:39 --> 00:35:44 They are not two sides of the same coin. They are the same coin. They're the same side.
00:35:44 --> 00:35:51 They both are still fighting against this whole expectations that are laid upon them.
00:35:51 --> 00:35:55 Velma is expected to just play her part.
00:35:55 --> 00:36:01 Yes. And not to react to something that they know damn well she's going to react to.
00:36:01 --> 00:36:06 If your sister's sleeping with your husband, it's going to cause a reaction.
00:36:07 --> 00:36:11 Yeah. I mean, and you're right about the societal expectations.
00:36:11 --> 00:36:18 One of the lines that she says in All That Jazz is, no, I'm no one's wife, but I love my life.
00:36:19 --> 00:36:24 And that always hit me, too, because that expectation of being a wife,
00:36:25 --> 00:36:28 being some, you know, belonging to somebody, because that's what it was.
00:36:28 --> 00:36:31 It was belonging to somebody, not in a good way.
00:36:31 --> 00:36:39 But she's saying that in the song like fuck you i am part of this hot mess jazz culture,
00:36:40 --> 00:36:43 and you know i don't care this is
00:36:43 --> 00:36:46 my life and i'm so happy to be here but there's one
00:36:46 --> 00:36:49 thing she says later or early on that she that that
00:36:49 --> 00:36:52 was why i kind of giggled in the beginning because it wasn't even a funny line
00:36:52 --> 00:36:55 but i giggled in the beginning of the movie is when she's
00:36:55 --> 00:36:59 arriving at the club to perform
00:36:59 --> 00:37:03 and they're like you know where's your sister and she's like
00:37:03 --> 00:37:06 I can do it alone and I laughed because
00:37:06 --> 00:37:09 I knew that later on when she
00:37:09 --> 00:37:14 sings the song to Roxy to get her to come and be a part her partner the line
00:37:14 --> 00:37:20 in the song is but I can't do it alone and it's like that throwback that I never
00:37:20 --> 00:37:26 caught all those times I watched it and this was my comfort movie weirdly a comfort movie for me.
00:37:27 --> 00:37:30 But I think when we watch comfort movies.
00:37:31 --> 00:37:36 Unless something changes in your life, when you watch a comfort movie,
00:37:36 --> 00:37:39 that movie has a definition for you.
00:37:40 --> 00:37:42 It has the parts you pay attention to.
00:37:43 --> 00:37:48 And then when you change your life in some way and you watch a comfort movie
00:37:48 --> 00:37:51 again, the definition changes again.
00:37:51 --> 00:37:54 True. I can see that. I've definitely done that.
00:37:54 --> 00:37:59 You know how I am about watching and re-watching things over and over again.
00:37:59 --> 00:38:05 And I can tell you my comfort movies like Bye Bye Birdie, say again,
00:38:06 --> 00:38:12 another musical that is not on your wheelhouse. No, I used to love Bye Bye Birdie.
00:38:12 --> 00:38:19 I mean, I was like so close to being in a performance of Bye Bye Birdie in my intermediate school.
00:38:19 --> 00:38:24 It was because when the kids were little and we didn't have cable and all we
00:38:24 --> 00:38:30 had was a DVD player, our youngest would play it on a fucking loop.
00:38:30 --> 00:38:35 And I can't even begin to listen to those songs because I will throw up.
00:38:35 --> 00:38:39 That in Enchanted I can't even
00:38:39 --> 00:38:42 watch Enchanted and I loved Enchanted can't watch
00:38:42 --> 00:38:48 it well you know that was our movie you know our daughter and I share that movie
00:38:48 --> 00:38:52 that's something we always had but she would literally it would end and she'd
00:38:52 --> 00:38:59 start it right back up oh yeah and I and yeah that was when she was little and she's 23 now and I still.
00:39:00 --> 00:39:06 Want to throw the movie across the building so the things in that movie Not
00:39:06 --> 00:39:08 to segue into Bye Bye Birdie.
00:39:08 --> 00:39:11 I mean, it's all about Dick Van Dyke anyway.
00:39:11 --> 00:39:14 Yeah. But...
00:39:15 --> 00:39:21 The things I found in that movie for comfort changed during different parts
00:39:21 --> 00:39:23 of my life because I've always loved that movie. Oh, yeah.
00:39:24 --> 00:39:28 And when I was young, it meant something vastly different than it does now.
00:39:29 --> 00:39:33 The last time I saw By My Birdie, I haven't watched it since.
00:39:33 --> 00:39:37 I know it's different for me now if I were to watch it, but I'd just come out.
00:39:39 --> 00:39:46 True. And there are those parts of the movie where I love being a girl,
00:39:47 --> 00:39:55 you know, things like that, that spoke directly to me my whole life, but in different ways.
00:39:55 --> 00:40:00 They sometimes, earlier in my life, it was shouting at me. Yeah.
00:40:00 --> 00:40:04 And then when I came out, it was consoling me.
00:40:04 --> 00:40:12 Yeah. And now I think I would find it just a comforting thing and not actually
00:40:12 --> 00:40:16 speaking to me directly, but maybe speaking to a past me.
00:40:17 --> 00:40:23 So when you're watching Chicago as a comfort movie, what about that comfort?
00:40:23 --> 00:40:27 What is it now as opposed to before?
00:40:27 --> 00:40:34 What is that that brings you comfort? so before and and this is we're gonna
00:40:34 --> 00:40:39 get deep into my psychology right here like i said before i was going through
00:40:39 --> 00:40:44 a lot of shit and the relationship i was in was not very good and.
00:40:45 --> 00:40:55 So not only did the songs hit me in a way like they were empowering and and
00:40:55 --> 00:40:58 in billy flynn i I was kind of,
00:40:58 --> 00:41:02 you know, I wanted the Billy Flynn to come in and save me because I didn't see what a creeper he was.
00:41:03 --> 00:41:09 I was young. But I wanted the Billy Flynn to come and find me and save me from the prison.
00:41:09 --> 00:41:12 I wanted that because it's my mind was that was my life.
00:41:13 --> 00:41:21 And I wanted the power that those women were finding in themselves.
00:41:22 --> 00:41:26 And I didn't know how to tap into that power for myself. So I would watch this
00:41:26 --> 00:41:31 movie almost like it was unlocking some type of secret, even though I never got very deep into it.
00:41:31 --> 00:41:33 It was all about the music and all about the songs.
00:41:34 --> 00:41:42 I would dance and sing in my house by myself. I would clean the house and put
00:41:42 --> 00:41:45 the kids down for naps and I would sing and dance. And, you know,
00:41:45 --> 00:41:49 that was there was nobody there to watch me. So I had the whole house to be stupid in.
00:41:49 --> 00:41:53 And so that was that was my other my other part.
00:41:53 --> 00:41:58 And also that part of me that this is before I had ever done ever got a chance
00:41:58 --> 00:42:02 to actually do musical theater outside of school.
00:42:03 --> 00:42:09 So I wanted to do it. I wanted to play Velma Kelly. If I ever...
00:42:10 --> 00:42:16 Obviously, I'm way too old now, but there were always two roles I always wanted
00:42:16 --> 00:42:18 to play. I never wanted to be a lead in any play.
00:42:21 --> 00:42:25 Whenever I would audition for plays, there's only one lead I've ever auditioned
00:42:25 --> 00:42:28 for, even though I knew I wasn't going to get the part, and that was for Snow White.
00:42:28 --> 00:42:31 I was in my 30s. It was just because I knew that was the only time I was going
00:42:31 --> 00:42:32 to get to play Snow White.
00:42:33 --> 00:42:37 And there's reasons why she's my favorite princess. Don't come at me. They are legit.
00:42:38 --> 00:42:41 Yes, there's problems with Snow White but don't at me I'm talking
00:42:41 --> 00:42:44 to yeah but if I
00:42:44 --> 00:42:47 had ever like in my wildest dreams I looked
00:42:47 --> 00:42:51 in and was the age I needed to be there's only
00:42:51 --> 00:42:53 two major roles I would love to be and
00:42:53 --> 00:42:57 one of them is Velma Kelly and the other one is Princess Fred from
00:42:57 --> 00:43:00 Once Upon a Mattress because Princess Fred
00:43:00 --> 00:43:03 is the shit but that's it
00:43:03 --> 00:43:06 and I so I would like I was in
00:43:06 --> 00:43:10 my head i was velma kelly and i could sing those songs and i would and also
00:43:10 --> 00:43:13 i have this thing about trying to work my vocal cords because even though i
00:43:13 --> 00:43:18 don't think i'm that great of a singer i like to sing a lot and those notes
00:43:18 --> 00:43:24 are a fuck to hit that that yeah so you know how like in the movie.
00:43:26 --> 00:43:34 They switched over to roxy doing that high note yeah i've that they do that
00:43:34 --> 00:43:38 in the movie i don't know if they do that in the play, but again,
00:43:38 --> 00:43:42 I've only ever heard the song being sung by one person,
00:43:43 --> 00:43:49 as the main, and that note is not a fun note to hit. I would imagine, yeah.
00:43:49 --> 00:43:55 But it's fun to try, you know, and I would like, my voice would crack, and I'd be loud.
00:43:55 --> 00:43:57 It's like trying to sing Take On Me.
00:43:57 --> 00:44:00 Yeah. It's not about hitting the note. It's about the fun of trying to hit the
00:44:00 --> 00:44:05 note. And I have that type of voice where for me to hit higher notes, I have to get louder.
00:44:06 --> 00:44:10 So it's, yeah, low notes and high notes, I have to get very loud to do them.
00:44:11 --> 00:44:14 So, yeah, that was it for me.
00:44:14 --> 00:44:22 It was me hiding behind the story to build this fantasy world because I live
00:44:22 --> 00:44:23 in this make-believe world.
00:44:23 --> 00:44:26 And even now, I'm not going to lie, I still live in my little make-believe worlds.
00:44:27 --> 00:44:30 But it's not as an escape like it had been.
00:44:31 --> 00:44:39 But that's actually kind of apropos, because in the movie, they are daydreaming about performing.
00:44:40 --> 00:44:45 That's part of their feelings, and that's what you just described,
00:44:45 --> 00:44:47 is doing the same thing they did.
00:44:47 --> 00:44:51 If I could not play Velma Kelly, do you know who else I would want to play in Chicago?
00:44:52 --> 00:44:53 Amos?
00:44:55 --> 00:44:59 I would want to play Mama Morton. Okay.
00:45:00 --> 00:45:06 And a few years back when I was still going on my associate's degree and I was
00:45:06 --> 00:45:10 nowhere near where I am right now, I had to take an elective and I took chorus
00:45:10 --> 00:45:13 and I got to sing When You're Good to Mama,
00:45:13 --> 00:45:16 which was actually kind of funny.
00:45:17 --> 00:45:19 The performances online, if you can find it, bless your heart,
00:45:19 --> 00:45:21 you get to deal with that.
00:45:21 --> 00:45:24 But the piano player
00:45:24 --> 00:45:27 for the our performance he had not been with
00:45:27 --> 00:45:30 us for any of our other rehearsals and he
00:45:30 --> 00:45:33 came in because our other piano player i don't remember what happened to
00:45:33 --> 00:45:38 him he couldn't seem to get the music right and so i he was screwing up all
00:45:38 --> 00:45:42 my cues so i ended up just ignoring the piano player and singing the song and
00:45:42 --> 00:45:46 i don't even know if it sounded good like i refused to watch that video they
00:45:46 --> 00:45:50 got the one piano player who couldn't play piano exactly it was i I mean,
00:45:50 --> 00:45:53 he could play, but he seemed to not be able to play my song.
00:45:53 --> 00:45:57 Do you have the sheet upside down? I don't know, hon. It was weird.
00:45:57 --> 00:46:00 Like, I had no cues coming in, and then I couldn't hear his notes.
00:46:01 --> 00:46:05 The best thing about that performance was when the other two ladies and I did
00:46:05 --> 00:46:06 the song from Oh Brother Where Art Thou.
00:46:07 --> 00:46:10 That was like— That is definitely another movie I want to do.
00:46:10 --> 00:46:14 Yes, I do love that movie, too. Now, that is a movie— There's so much in that
00:46:14 --> 00:46:16 movie. I love the music in it.
00:46:16 --> 00:46:18 See, like, that would be a two-parter, because it's the music,
00:46:18 --> 00:46:19 it's the history, it's the— Oh, yeah.
00:46:20 --> 00:46:25 Oh, yeah, The Odyssey. We're talking about, like, there's so much. Yeah, but.
00:46:26 --> 00:46:29 We're bringing up all these other movies. Yes, but I did perform both of those
00:46:29 --> 00:46:32 songs. But that's the thing is they bring, you know, this is something,
00:46:33 --> 00:46:36 you know, if you get into one musical, you're probably into a lot of musicals. Yeah.
00:46:37 --> 00:46:44 It's the same with the movies about the musicals or a filmography of the music itself.
00:46:45 --> 00:46:49 It's again this this play has always been uh
00:46:49 --> 00:46:54 well the movie has since i've seen it since 2002 when i saw it it's always been
00:46:54 --> 00:47:00 just a huge part and you can like ask the kids to you know what's your mom's
00:47:00 --> 00:47:04 favorite yeah i'm just saying i don't mean you specifically i'm just saying
00:47:04 --> 00:47:07 you could ask my children and they would be like yeah my mom is listening to
00:47:07 --> 00:47:09 that soundtrack all the time,
00:47:09 --> 00:47:13 So, yeah, it's definitely, it means a lot to me.
00:47:14 --> 00:47:21 You know who I thought I was really surprised by their performance, though, was Amos.
00:47:21 --> 00:47:23 I didn't know John C. Reilly could sing.
00:47:24 --> 00:47:27 Oh, you haven't seen some of his Will Ferrell movies?
00:47:27 --> 00:47:33 Well, I mean, no, I was not a, you know, I saw, this is older than him and Will
00:47:33 --> 00:47:36 Ferrell being in movies together. So I had not seen him.
00:47:37 --> 00:47:41 I'd seen his face in many, many movies, not knowing really who he was. And...
00:47:42 --> 00:47:47 Him singing Mr. Cellophane. Do you want to know why I know Mr.
00:47:47 --> 00:47:51 Cellophane? Because we've already established that all that jazz is from the
00:47:51 --> 00:47:55 commercials. I'm going to guess it's because he was introduced to you by Rubber Band Man.
00:47:55 --> 00:47:57 You are so close, but no.
00:47:59 --> 00:48:02 Ben Vereen did it on The Muppet Show. Oh, okay.
00:48:05 --> 00:48:09 That's how old I am, y'all. That's it. Just right then and there.
00:48:09 --> 00:48:14 Muppet Show, Ben Vereen. And if you know who those two things are and put them
00:48:14 --> 00:48:16 together, yeah, you got it.
00:48:16 --> 00:48:19 So, yeah, that's how I knew that song was Ben Vereen performing that on The
00:48:19 --> 00:48:21 Muppet Show. I did not know he did that.
00:48:21 --> 00:48:26 You know, I have the first, I think, the first season of The Muppet Show,
00:48:26 --> 00:48:28 and I believe it's in one of those episodes. Wow.
00:48:29 --> 00:48:32 So, I've already said everything I can say about this movie.
00:48:33 --> 00:48:37 No, I'm saying that because I've got all these notes, and they all center around
00:48:37 --> 00:48:40 what I've talked about, which is we're talking about, you know, justice.
00:48:40 --> 00:48:43 And we're not even talking about the justice system.
00:48:43 --> 00:48:47 No, because we know that that was a load of shit in that whole entire situation.
00:48:47 --> 00:48:52 Yeah, I mean, it was obviously satirized. But also, you can take into consideration
00:48:52 --> 00:48:53 the corruption of the time.
00:48:54 --> 00:48:58 The 20s were notorious for corruption when it came to the justice system.
00:48:58 --> 00:49:03 And Chicago, New York, these are the big cities that had the highest of corruptions.
00:49:03 --> 00:49:11 Chicago you know when you think Chicago you think of the gangs and you think of Al Capone and
00:49:11 --> 00:49:14 the corruption Prohibition yeah you think
00:49:14 --> 00:49:20 of that so that's why I don't think I ever really blinked about this movie being
00:49:20 --> 00:49:28 so far from the actual judicial system because I knew at that time period it
00:49:28 --> 00:49:32 was just shit I think that when we're talking about.
00:49:32 --> 00:49:36 Billy flynn as a lawyer yes being
00:49:36 --> 00:49:38 a smarmy he was only interested in
00:49:38 --> 00:49:43 the money he doesn't care about the law this is about him winning the cases
00:49:43 --> 00:49:50 so he can get more money when we're talking about that it is easy to see that
00:49:50 --> 00:49:56 as something that was clear in the 20s it was okay yeah they didn't,
00:49:57 --> 00:49:59 sure they had their ethics and
00:49:59 --> 00:50:02 everything but you know there were a lot of loggers just playing it loose.
00:50:02 --> 00:50:07 And let's face it, the judges and the prosecutors are playing it pretty damn loose, too. Oh, yeah.
00:50:09 --> 00:50:13 And now when we look at it, you try to get a defense lawyer to lie for you,
00:50:14 --> 00:50:16 not going to happen. Oh, no.
00:50:16 --> 00:50:21 Unless, you know, they're the worst defense lawyer ever, because they have,
00:50:21 --> 00:50:26 you know, a real board, a judicial board that could take their license away.
00:50:26 --> 00:50:30 And, yeah, meanwhile, you know, he knew the doctor was lying about her being pregnant.
00:50:31 --> 00:50:35 And he was like, will you testify that? And he's like, yeah.
00:50:35 --> 00:50:37 And he's like, good, your fly's down.
00:50:37 --> 00:50:42 You know, because, you know, she was giving him some, I'll give you head if
00:50:42 --> 00:50:43 you tell my lawyer I'm knocked up.
00:50:44 --> 00:50:47 And then he knew that that's what she did.
00:50:47 --> 00:50:52 And so he was willing to go along with the lie if the doctor was going to support that lie.
00:50:53 --> 00:50:57 And that's, again, you're seeing the corruption right then and there. Well, yeah.
00:50:57 --> 00:51:03 I mean, the corruption, again, do you think? Give him the old razzle-dazzle. Do you think that...
00:51:04 --> 00:51:11 Roxy would have just blown a random doctor if there wasn't a power that she had to bow to.
00:51:12 --> 00:51:17 Oh, yeah. But that was her power. No, it wasn't her power. She's trapped within a system.
00:51:18 --> 00:51:23 Billy is saying, you need to get his, you know, he needs to give you that approval.
00:51:24 --> 00:51:30 But see, I don't think that, see, I didn't see it as Billy Flynn saying,
00:51:30 --> 00:51:32 you need to do whatever you have to to get this doctor to.
00:51:32 --> 00:51:40 I saw it as her not telling billy that that's what she that as far as she knows
00:51:40 --> 00:51:45 and as far as billy knows billy thinks she's pregnant and she believes that
00:51:45 --> 00:51:46 billy thinks that she's pregnant.
00:51:47 --> 00:51:53 I saw that as her getting the doctor on her side to convince billy that that's
00:51:53 --> 00:51:58 what it was i didn't see it as billy telling her get the doctor to just to be
00:51:58 --> 00:52:01 on our side i think it's going to be subjective.
00:52:01 --> 00:52:04 I think so. But I don't, I don't. But see, that's how I saw it.
00:52:04 --> 00:52:10 I saw it as her taking her power going, I'll do this because this is my choice
00:52:10 --> 00:52:12 to convince you to be on my side.
00:52:12 --> 00:52:17 But I think that's what a lot of women tell themselves is my choice to do it.
00:52:17 --> 00:52:23 But really, if you're in a patriarchal society, then it isn't your choice to do it.
00:52:23 --> 00:52:25 It is something that you're forced
00:52:25 --> 00:52:32 to by society as a coping or survival mechanism to say it's my choice.
00:52:32 --> 00:52:40 Oh, no. It's convincing you. It's like women's segregation in sports is completely accepted.
00:52:41 --> 00:52:47 It is entirely accepted. I do not understand because men have convinced women
00:52:47 --> 00:52:48 that they are weaker. Yeah.
00:52:49 --> 00:52:53 Which is not the case at all. It's just if you aren't competing at the same
00:52:53 --> 00:52:56 levels, you're never going to develop beyond that.
00:52:57 --> 00:53:01 So to say that, you know, that all men are stronger than women is crazy.
00:53:01 --> 00:53:07 Women beat men in sports all the time. And if they were all competing in the
00:53:07 --> 00:53:09 same sports, men would lose to women. Yeah.
00:53:10 --> 00:53:14 And they see women as weak, so therefore they would be seen as weak.
00:53:14 --> 00:53:18 So men cannot compete with women in sports, so they segregate them.
00:53:19 --> 00:53:24 And somehow, societally, that was accepted as the norm, as okay.
00:53:25 --> 00:53:31 Not one person, I would think, that had any shredded decency in them would think,
00:53:32 --> 00:53:37 segregating black folk from sports is a good idea.
00:53:39 --> 00:53:46 Yet it's okay to do it to women and i i see what you're saying and i i see that you're you know,
00:53:46 --> 00:53:49 that if society wasn't set up the
00:53:49 --> 00:53:52 way it was then she wouldn't need to do
00:53:52 --> 00:53:55 that to get him to be convinced
00:53:55 --> 00:54:05 to to side with her right but as i i just i i may be taking it too far but that's
00:54:05 --> 00:54:08 what i'm saying that you're taking it too far i mean again i it is you're right
00:54:08 --> 00:54:13 it's subjective we don't know what billy flynn knows at that moment we just
00:54:13 --> 00:54:15 know what he thinks he knows,
00:54:17 --> 00:54:20 and but i saw what i saw was
00:54:20 --> 00:54:23 you don't know what happened in that room until
00:54:23 --> 00:54:25 you put two and two together you see her in
00:54:25 --> 00:54:28 the background getting dressed again she had a a
00:54:28 --> 00:54:31 checkup not to say
00:54:31 --> 00:54:34 that that's something unheard of you know she's putting her clothes
00:54:34 --> 00:54:40 back on it's his comment about the zipper and that's when you go oh shit oh
00:54:40 --> 00:54:47 shit but i don't think it was billy telling her to do it and i do think that
00:54:47 --> 00:54:53 it was her idea to do it because she has realized that
00:54:53 --> 00:54:55 her sexuality is her power.
00:54:57 --> 00:55:03 She had Amos. She had Fred. Fred fucked her over.
00:55:04 --> 00:55:08 She killed him. He's out of the picture. She can still keep,
00:55:08 --> 00:55:11 she gets Amos to pay for so many things.
00:55:11 --> 00:55:18 He pays for the lawyer $5, which would be like over $60 nowadays.
00:55:20 --> 00:55:24 She uses that, power
00:55:24 --> 00:55:27 to convince by changing
00:55:27 --> 00:55:30 it from being overly sexual to being completely demure
00:55:30 --> 00:55:36 and convinces all the journalists and everything else that she is so innocent
00:55:36 --> 00:55:43 and she's so sweet she knows how to use her femininity she gets to use all of
00:55:43 --> 00:55:47 that for her benefit and she's using it on both extremes,
00:55:48 --> 00:55:53 whether it is in sexual favors or just pretending to be this doe-eyed.
00:55:56 --> 00:56:01 I think that Roxy just has all the power. She knows how to use that power.
00:56:01 --> 00:56:07 And I also think that that's part of why Velma gets so like testy with her when
00:56:07 --> 00:56:11 she starts to become popular is because Velma doesn't know how to pull off the
00:56:11 --> 00:56:13 innocence. She's a vamp.
00:56:13 --> 00:56:16 Velma has that sultry sexuality just
00:56:16 --> 00:56:19 as a natural because that's Catherine Zeta-Jones is
00:56:19 --> 00:56:22 just naturally that deep sultry you
00:56:22 --> 00:56:26 know there's a depth to her and she
00:56:26 --> 00:56:29 doesn't have i can't see katherine zeta jones
00:56:29 --> 00:56:35 pulling off innocence katherine zeta jones is morticia adams she has that that
00:56:35 --> 00:56:42 that gravitas yeah she's more of a siren than yeah so to play something as innocent
00:56:42 --> 00:56:48 and and pure and not to say that that's a bad thing. She just doesn't have that ability.
00:56:49 --> 00:56:53 I can play vapid really well, but not everybody can play vapid.
00:56:53 --> 00:56:57 I don't always play smart well, but I can play vapid really good.
00:56:57 --> 00:57:00 I've been faking smart for years. Oh, me too. Me too, yeah.
00:57:03 --> 00:57:07 So, that's it. Yeah, no, I see what you're saying.
00:57:07 --> 00:57:11 I understand that. I see it differently, But I think that's okay,
00:57:11 --> 00:57:15 because, again, this is supposed to, I think it's deliberate.
00:57:15 --> 00:57:17 Oh, yeah, and I'm not trying to convince you of my perspective of it.
00:57:17 --> 00:57:20 I think it's deliberate in its subjectiveness.
00:57:20 --> 00:57:27 Oh, definitely. You're allowed to come to the conclusion you come to based upon who you are watching it.
00:57:27 --> 00:57:33 And I think in a lot of ways, a lot of this movie, like even Billy Flynn's true
00:57:33 --> 00:57:40 motivations, like you're left kind of wondering, is it truly all he cares about is money?
00:57:40 --> 00:57:46 Does he care about the women and by that i mean like having sex with them hanging out with them,
00:57:46 --> 00:57:52 does he care about the actual law what does he cares about and it's money he's
00:57:52 --> 00:57:57 more of a he's more of a svengali yeah he cares about the money that's the that's
00:57:57 --> 00:58:03 the irony in in the billy flynn song is you know he's talking about how all
00:58:03 --> 00:58:06 he really cares is love uh you know cares about his love and yet.
00:58:07 --> 00:58:11 He's immediately, well, I'm not going to help. I think her name is,
00:58:12 --> 00:58:15 oh God, I can't remember the name of the girl, the Hungarian girl.
00:58:15 --> 00:58:19 The one innocent woman. Because I don't want to call her by the name that they
00:58:19 --> 00:58:22 give her because the name that they give her, so she has a name,
00:58:22 --> 00:58:26 which again, I can't remember, but the name that they call her is actually a
00:58:26 --> 00:58:29 slang term for Hungarians at that time.
00:58:30 --> 00:58:33 And it's the other, you know, they do that.
00:58:33 --> 00:58:36 At one point, I can't remember if it's velma or if it's roxy
00:58:36 --> 00:58:39 but they use a slang term for billy flynn
00:58:39 --> 00:58:42 being irish so they do use a lot
00:58:42 --> 00:58:45 of of that that derogatory speech but
00:58:45 --> 00:58:52 again 1920s it's just yeah i i don't know but that's what's weird about it too
00:58:52 --> 00:58:57 is that you're one minute you're calling people names based on their backgrounds
00:58:57 --> 00:59:03 or their ethnicity but you've got mama morton who is black woman with blonde hair.
00:59:03 --> 00:59:08 I love that how she jumps on the Roxy bandwagon and bleaches her hair blonde.
00:59:09 --> 00:59:14 I think that also speaks, and when we're talking about Mama Morton,
00:59:14 --> 00:59:22 it speaks to the fact that she is always there to profit, but she never gets
00:59:22 --> 00:59:23 to get out of that prison.
00:59:24 --> 00:59:31 True. She doesn't. And she does try to make a profit, but she knows how to shift
00:59:31 --> 00:59:37 power too. Yeah, but we're talking about someone who is just as trapped as the other girls are.
00:59:37 --> 00:59:39 Oh, yeah. She's just as trapped as they are.
00:59:39 --> 00:59:46 She can profit off them, but she never gets to grow or to go anywhere. She is trapped there.
00:59:48 --> 00:59:52 When you look at it that way, you understand, like—,
00:59:53 --> 01:00:00 The people that are in the band, I think they're almost, I think they're all black. I think they are.
01:00:01 --> 01:00:07 And they never get to go anywhere. They're literally.
01:00:07 --> 01:00:10 At the bar. There. Yeah. That's where they are.
01:00:11 --> 01:00:15 You don't see their existence outside of that. No.
01:00:15 --> 01:00:19 Say for Tay Diggs, who shows up whenever they need something.
01:00:19 --> 01:00:22 Like, they need him to play piano in a scene.
01:00:23 --> 01:00:26 He's the one that plays it. He's the announcer.
01:00:27 --> 01:00:31 Almost like the narrator, unofficial narrator of the play. Right.
01:00:31 --> 01:00:39 But they are all in concert acting only in the interest of the people that are white.
01:00:40 --> 01:00:45 And we're talking about the same for Mama Morton. Despite her saying she's in charge.
01:00:45 --> 01:00:49 Oh, yeah. She's still just as much a prisoner as everyone else.
01:00:50 --> 01:00:56 So when they do introduce her and she's doing her song, she's performing for white people. Right.
01:00:56 --> 01:01:02 I mean, she is on stage and she is playing up to white men and women.
01:01:02 --> 01:01:10 And her song has a lot of innuendo, which is pretty straightforward innuendo, but it is innuendo.
01:01:10 --> 01:01:14 It's also self-effacing. And it is self-effacing innuendo.
01:01:15 --> 01:01:20 But you can see that she's doing it to appease the mass in front of her.
01:01:21 --> 01:01:25 And that would, again, you're right about, you know, she's in her own cage and
01:01:25 --> 01:01:28 she's got to perform for these people.
01:01:28 --> 01:01:31 And yes, there were air quotes I used that you could not see.
01:01:34 --> 01:01:42 Sorry, I tend to forget. I'm a little rusty with my people skills.
01:01:43 --> 01:01:47 Sorry. You can actually feel the hand quotes. And if I don't make a reference
01:01:47 --> 01:01:50 to Supernatural, at least once an episode, I'm a miss.
01:01:51 --> 01:02:00 So how do you feel now about Chicago, now that I've dissected it down to make
01:02:00 --> 01:02:01 it really horrifying for you?
01:02:01 --> 01:02:04 And I'm very sorry about that. No, no, no, no, no. How do you feel about it?
01:02:05 --> 01:02:09 So what's funny is, is my note, when I do my feelings before,
01:02:09 --> 01:02:13 I usually like to do three or four things. And usually they're one word statements
01:02:13 --> 01:02:15 or they're like little, little phrases.
01:02:15 --> 01:02:25 So like my before was excited, loved story, my go to comfort movie because I
01:02:25 --> 01:02:27 can read my own handwriting, y'all.
01:02:28 --> 01:02:32 But for my current feelings, I wrote Perspective Change because,
01:02:32 --> 01:02:36 again, I'm not a 20-something needing rescue.
01:02:36 --> 01:02:39 Right. Feminism slash sexism is what I wrote.
01:02:41 --> 01:02:47 And songs with three underlines because the songs always make me happy.
01:02:47 --> 01:02:54 Even when they are just, I can't even explain it.
01:02:54 --> 01:02:57 Because, again, Billy Flynn pisses me off now where he'd never pissed me off before.
01:02:58 --> 01:03:00 But I'll still sing his songs.
01:03:01 --> 01:03:04 You know, I'll still sing the Billy Flynn songs. I'll still sing.
01:03:05 --> 01:03:10 I mean, you guys are lucky because now Beth has got to listen to me sing Chicago
01:03:10 --> 01:03:14 for the next month because it's in my head now. I'm going to want to keep listening to these songs.
01:03:14 --> 01:03:20 They are comforting songs for me because, again, I know the words, I know the keys.
01:03:21 --> 01:03:27 They are fun. And I like to sing them. Again, not like I think I'm good. I just like to sing.
01:03:27 --> 01:03:32 So, yeah. So, what's changed for you? I guess nothing has changed for you?
01:03:32 --> 01:03:34 No, things have changed.
01:03:34 --> 01:03:41 But when I saw it before, again, it's not my movie, really. I was disinterested.
01:03:42 --> 01:03:43 I noticed something.
01:03:44 --> 01:03:49 You know, the things I just talked about, you know, the injustice of things.
01:03:50 --> 01:03:54 But the feminism in it was a little bit lost on me because I didn't know how
01:03:54 --> 01:03:58 to place it. I was still in that area of trying to place.
01:03:58 --> 01:04:02 Well, I didn't, even then, I didn't see feminism the way I understand feminism
01:04:02 --> 01:04:06 now as empowering that, you know, that they went through.
01:04:06 --> 01:04:12 So I had to come to that. And in this, it definitely defined it down for me.
01:04:12 --> 01:04:15 Hold on, there's a cat here on my mic and it's bothering me.
01:04:16 --> 01:04:18 Our Grieche cat, he gets hairy.
01:04:19 --> 01:04:25 So, now, when we watched it this time, I was still fairly disinterested because,
01:04:25 --> 01:04:27 again, just not my movie.
01:04:28 --> 01:04:32 I was a little bit more interested, but I really went into this thing of,
01:04:32 --> 01:04:37 you know, dissecting down the layers of the different issues.
01:04:37 --> 01:04:41 And, you know, I've got, I listed out a whole bunch of stuff about,
01:04:41 --> 01:04:45 you know, celebrity and fame, which is also part of that trap.
01:04:45 --> 01:04:50 Yeah. You know, to get celebrity and to get fame, you know, you have to do these
01:04:50 --> 01:04:52 things. And once you do those things, you get this thing.
01:04:52 --> 01:04:54 But now that thing is the cage you're in.
01:04:55 --> 01:05:01 So you get out of a cage of being in this loveless marriage for her loveless.
01:05:01 --> 01:05:07 Yeah. And then she gets fame, which is also its own cage, which they don't really get into.
01:05:08 --> 01:05:13 No. In her imaginings, though, that fame and celebrity starts to play a part,
01:05:13 --> 01:05:18 and it starts to build that cage for her, as you can see it happening.
01:05:19 --> 01:05:24 Yes, definitely. She is trapped. And one instance of this is very poignant,
01:05:24 --> 01:05:30 I believe, is when Billy and her argue about the dress. She doesn't want to wear the dress.
01:05:31 --> 01:05:33 And the knitting. And the knitting.
01:05:34 --> 01:05:39 And she wants to not wear that and not knit while she's on the stand.
01:05:40 --> 01:05:44 And he says, you need to do it. I'm the lawyer. And I said, you know,
01:05:44 --> 01:05:47 I never lose a case. Yeah. And she fires him.
01:05:48 --> 01:05:51 Yep. Because she's mad because she wants her way.
01:05:53 --> 01:06:00 And this is that part where she thinks she has the power because she's getting celebrity.
01:06:01 --> 01:06:05 She thinks she has the power to get away with that. She realizes very quickly
01:06:05 --> 01:06:12 at the hanging of the one innocent woman in prison, which is also its own injustice.
01:06:13 --> 01:06:17 And she realizes very quickly she
01:06:17 --> 01:06:20 has no power because the actual
01:06:20 --> 01:06:23 power is in how you
01:06:23 --> 01:06:27 can affect yourself in society celebrity only
01:06:27 --> 01:06:30 gets you so far you have to have that fame to go with it
01:06:30 --> 01:06:33 and once you have that you can
01:06:33 --> 01:06:37 write that for a while but it never lasts yes
01:06:37 --> 01:06:40 and we don't see that because we get the end which
01:06:40 --> 01:06:43 just cuts off and that's actually a nice
01:06:43 --> 01:06:46 thing of you don't know what happens you
01:06:46 --> 01:06:49 don't know how their lives turn out because it doesn't matter oh
01:06:49 --> 01:06:54 yeah they're at the peak of their ability they're at the peak of their performance
01:06:54 --> 01:07:00 they're at the peak of their celebrity yes and fame anything beyond that returns
01:07:00 --> 01:07:07 them to the other cages yes so they're just hamsters in different parts of this tunnel system.
01:07:08 --> 01:07:15 And that is what we are in life. We all have our cages that we are put into.
01:07:15 --> 01:07:20 Some have less bars, but we all have those cages. And,
01:07:21 --> 01:07:27 I know that I'm going on about this, but to me, that's what I see.
01:07:27 --> 01:07:29 That's what I'm seeing in the movie.
01:07:29 --> 01:07:35 That is what drives me in Chicago to finish the film is because I'm not,
01:07:35 --> 01:07:39 I know there's a story here, but honestly, I didn't pay attention to it.
01:07:39 --> 01:07:43 I was paying attention to the story above that.
01:07:43 --> 01:07:46 The the the other layer of
01:07:46 --> 01:07:49 the film which is all about these tides and
01:07:49 --> 01:07:52 ebbs of justice and sexuality and your place
01:07:52 --> 01:07:55 within society that's what moves me
01:07:55 --> 01:07:59 in this film and the music
01:07:59 --> 01:08:02 is almost secondary to me because
01:08:02 --> 01:08:05 it doesn't hold the appeal it does to you
01:08:05 --> 01:08:08 yeah or that you hold you know that you have
01:08:08 --> 01:08:11 for it i appreciate the
01:08:11 --> 01:08:15 film i appreciate the the music i appreciate
01:08:15 --> 01:08:18 the dancing more than anything else oh yeah dances dancing
01:08:18 --> 01:08:21 is had to work their asses off
01:08:21 --> 01:08:26 all of them acrobatic dances every one of them had to work their asses off to
01:08:26 --> 01:08:30 be able to do the things they did i mean when you're saying richard gear did
01:08:30 --> 01:08:34 you know the tap dancing he took three months of tap dancing just to learn like
01:08:34 --> 01:08:38 a 20-second segue or a 20-second vignette.
01:08:38 --> 01:08:44 Yeah. I didn't say segue, but a vignette that lasts hardly any time.
01:08:44 --> 01:08:50 There is a marker of the— Him, his— His rhythm change.
01:08:50 --> 01:08:54 His tap dancing, you know, the way he's manipulating the— Right.
01:08:54 --> 01:08:59 That's him changing his rhythm from the smarmy to—.
01:09:00 --> 01:09:06 The sharp legal mind that he is, when he starts tap dancing,
01:09:07 --> 01:09:09 is when he actually starts going in for the kill.
01:09:09 --> 01:09:13 You know, it's funny because we talked about the Hungarian woman and her innocence.
01:09:14 --> 01:09:16 Did you look at the translation of what she's saying?
01:09:17 --> 01:09:22 No. So basically what it was saying— I know it said, I am innocent. Oh, yeah.
01:09:24 --> 01:09:27 You don't know if she is innocent.
01:09:27 --> 01:09:32 What it was is basically that they found her with her lover,
01:09:32 --> 01:09:39 but also it could have been the word neighbor, that they cut off the head of this other person.
01:09:39 --> 01:09:44 And that when she came, you know, she told the police that she was innocent,
01:09:45 --> 01:09:47 but they didn't listen to her. They didn't understand her.
01:09:48 --> 01:09:56 So you don't know if she truly is innocent. Did she help cut this dude's head off? I don't know.
01:09:56 --> 01:10:02 For me, thematically, it makes sense that she is the one innocent person.
01:10:02 --> 01:10:03 Oh, yeah, because nobody can understand her.
01:10:03 --> 01:10:09 In this entire film, she is the one innocent person, not just because she's
01:10:09 --> 01:10:13 not understood, but because no one cares to find out.
01:10:13 --> 01:10:16 Nobody's trying to get an interpreter or something.
01:10:17 --> 01:10:23 Funnily enough, the actress, Ekaterina—I'm going to butcher this, y'all. I'm so sorry.
01:10:24 --> 01:10:28 Chichel kov canova chichel
01:10:28 --> 01:10:30 canova sure okay she's actually
01:10:30 --> 01:10:33 russian so her hungarian had a
01:10:33 --> 01:10:37 thick russian accent to it and even hungarians from
01:10:37 --> 01:10:40 what i was reading had a hard time understanding
01:10:40 --> 01:10:43 her and then like when she sees billy and
01:10:43 --> 01:10:46 she's trying to get him she's saying help please help she
01:10:46 --> 01:10:49 says that in russian not in hungarian that's
01:10:49 --> 01:10:52 adorable so i have a ton of trivia before
01:10:52 --> 01:10:55 we move on because I have to get it out of my system because I take these notes
01:10:55 --> 01:10:58 and I don't use them and it's really been frustrating me because I don't like
01:10:58 --> 01:11:03 to write stuff down and then not use it okay so right before they introduce
01:11:03 --> 01:11:09 mama morton roxy's sitting in a holding area I guess,
01:11:09 --> 01:11:15 and they the guard yells to no smoking in here and they show the woman who's
01:11:15 --> 01:11:16 smoking and it's an older woman.
01:11:17 --> 01:11:23 And it is Chita Rivera. And Chita Rivera originated the role on Broadway. Okay.
01:11:24 --> 01:11:29 And so that's the little nod there. John C. Reilly had a real love of.
01:11:30 --> 01:11:33 Of of clowns i couldn't get the word out why couldn't i
01:11:33 --> 01:11:36 think of the word clowns he designed his clown makeup he wanted
01:11:36 --> 01:11:39 he really want that that was his design for mr
01:11:39 --> 01:11:44 cellophane so that was very special for him john travolta
01:11:44 --> 01:11:47 was originally asked to play billy flynn and
01:11:47 --> 01:11:50 he turned it down so that this would make
01:11:50 --> 01:11:53 the fourth movie that john travolta turns
01:11:53 --> 01:11:56 down and richard gear picked up the other three
01:11:56 --> 01:11:59 are american gigolo days of
01:11:59 --> 01:12:02 heaven which i don't know that movie and officer
01:12:02 --> 01:12:05 and a gentleman which i didn't know wow i know
01:12:05 --> 01:12:08 so many so many he should have picked up i know and
01:12:08 --> 01:12:15 so my last little trivia thing is that the rights of the play were bought by
01:12:15 --> 01:12:22 rich martin richards in the 70s he was going to make the movie i guess in 87
01:12:22 --> 01:12:25 and they were going to cast Goldie Hawn,
01:12:26 --> 01:12:28 Liza Minnelli, and Frank Sinatra.
01:12:28 --> 01:12:34 But when Fosse died in 87, the whole project was junked.
01:12:35 --> 01:12:37 I'm not sure why they couldn't do it without Fosse.
01:12:38 --> 01:12:41 They still use his, you know, those are his dance moves and everything.
01:12:42 --> 01:12:45 So Fosse, Fosse, Fosse. We got to do Birdcage too.
01:12:46 --> 01:12:52 Because that's one of the lines in the Birdcage when they're doing the dances. Twyla, Twyla.
01:12:53 --> 01:12:59 So those that's my trivia there are a lot of actors in this movie that i thought
01:12:59 --> 01:13:05 needed to be mentioned we did mention most of them but we didn't mention maya
01:13:05 --> 01:13:13 which she sings in the cell block tango and i don't know what happened to maya but i used to love her,
01:13:14 --> 01:13:20 She did the song for the Rugrats movie, too. I don't know what... She was also in...
01:13:22 --> 01:13:26 She did the compilation... Not compilation. That's not the word I'm looking for.
01:13:27 --> 01:13:35 The Moulin Rouge song, the Lady Marmalade. She did that with Pink and Christina Aguilera. Okay.
01:13:35 --> 01:13:40 So, yeah. Maya is... I know who you're talking about now.
01:13:40 --> 01:13:43 Yeah, yeah. It took forever for that to hit, but yeah. So, yeah.
01:13:44 --> 01:13:46 I mean, we mentioned Taye Diggs. We mentioned Christine Baranski.
01:13:47 --> 01:13:50 Yeah, that's a thing. There were a lot of people in this film. A lot of people.
01:13:51 --> 01:13:54 A lot of people I didn't even name, but those were the big heavy hitters that
01:13:54 --> 01:13:58 I could think of that people might recognize the names of. Okay. Yep.
01:13:59 --> 01:14:05 So let's see if this passes the Castellini test. My guess is it will.
01:14:05 --> 01:14:14 So the cast-leading test is to kind of gauge, using probably some logic as well,
01:14:14 --> 01:14:18 whether or not there's quality or equity in the film. Okay.
01:14:19 --> 01:14:21 There's a lot of different ways it could go.
01:14:21 --> 01:14:26 Some are shooting for equality or you're shooting for equity because they're two different things.
01:14:27 --> 01:14:31 But... Diversity and inclusion as well. Yeah. Sometimes you hit one thing and
01:14:31 --> 01:14:36 sometimes you miss another. So, but let's see if it hits feminism at all.
01:14:37 --> 01:14:43 There have to be at least two named women characters with at least five lines of dialogue each.
01:14:44 --> 01:14:49 Roxy Hart and Velma Kelly. I mean, I think we have that. Mama Morton, Mary Sunshine.
01:14:51 --> 01:14:55 Those characters must have a conversation, not necessarily with the other woman,
01:14:55 --> 01:14:58 either not about their partner or with their partner, future or current,
01:14:58 --> 01:15:06 and not about their relationship. So while they murdered people they were in relationships with...
01:15:07 --> 01:15:13 Roxy and Velma, they talk about showbiz. Hardly any of them talk about their partners in any way.
01:15:14 --> 01:15:16 No, not unless they're talking about the people that they actually murdered.
01:15:16 --> 01:15:19 Not unless it's like case-driven. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:15:19 --> 01:15:22 But, you know, Mama Murphy talks about— Morton. Morton, sorry.
01:15:23 --> 01:15:29 Mama Morton talks about the case. Oh, yeah, yeah. Or she talks about wanting
01:15:29 --> 01:15:31 money. They're not talking about relationships.
01:15:31 --> 01:15:33 Nope. And Mary Sunshine talks about the cases.
01:15:34 --> 01:15:36 This is going to be an easy one. This is the layup.
01:15:37 --> 01:15:40 At least one of the women has to be integral to the plot, meaning that if she
01:15:40 --> 01:15:44 were written out of the film, it wouldn't reach the same ending.
01:15:44 --> 01:15:47 Pretty much. I mean, I'm not going to say they all are, because even if you
01:15:47 --> 01:15:51 take Mary Sunshine and you take Mama Morton out, the plot can still continue.
01:15:51 --> 01:15:58 But if you take Roxy Hart and Velma Kelly out of the equation, oh, heck no.
01:15:58 --> 01:16:01 What's the point? It's the Billy Flynn Show. It'd just be a smarmy lawyer.
01:16:01 --> 01:16:03 It's the Billy Flynn Show.
01:16:04 --> 01:16:08 Which is not great. Not great at all. No.
01:16:08 --> 01:16:12 But if you ever want to see the best performance of Billy Flynn,
01:16:12 --> 01:16:15 it is Jerry Orbach doing it. And you can look that up on YouTube.
01:16:16 --> 01:16:20 And more sexual. A lot more sexual. It was very sexual.
01:16:20 --> 01:16:24 Yes. It was very weird. All those panties. It was like watching Cabaret.
01:16:25 --> 01:16:28 I can link that in the show notes. Oh, okay. Yeah, that would be funny.
01:16:28 --> 01:16:31 I'll link that in the show. Send me that link. I will. I will.
01:16:31 --> 01:16:35 But yeah, I mean. We just watched it last week. Yeah, a couple weeks ago.
01:16:35 --> 01:16:39 Yeah. I mean, it's literally like they were dressed for cabaret. Yeah.
01:16:40 --> 01:16:43 And yet they were singing Billy Flynn. It was quite crazy.
01:16:45 --> 01:16:50 So, it passes the Castellini test. It passes Castellini. It is a feminist movie.
01:16:50 --> 01:16:52 Feminist movie, believe it or not.
01:16:53 --> 01:16:59 So, if you would like to watch Chicago, you can watch it on Amazon Prime,
01:17:00 --> 01:17:03 YouTube, Google Play, Apple TV, Fandango.
01:17:04 --> 01:17:10 And it's going to run you about $379 to $399 as per usual if you would like to rent it.
01:17:11 --> 01:17:14 Our next next week this movie
01:17:14 --> 01:17:18 here's our clues there are three one's very
01:17:18 --> 01:17:21 short this movie was chosen
01:17:21 --> 01:17:29 to honor who's we'll use the word honor a departed actor the second clue is
01:17:29 --> 01:17:40 it is possibly the first openly gay lead in an action movie and the third clue is when the leads kiss,
01:17:41 --> 01:17:45 One of them said that they had to think of Kevin Bacon to get in the mood.
01:17:46 --> 01:17:49 And I'm going to throw this one in here. I've never seen this movie.
01:17:50 --> 01:17:54 So this one will be interesting because I have no pre. That is not a clue for anyone.
01:17:55 --> 01:18:02 No clue, but I have no preconceived thoughts other than what I've read to find my clues.
01:18:02 --> 01:18:08 And now my curiosity is piqued because, you know, gay was the best word there.
01:18:10 --> 01:18:13 I think you'll like it i really enjoyed it well i'm
01:18:13 --> 01:18:17 looking for we'll see we'll we'll see later this week i guess somebody try to
01:18:17 --> 01:18:22 guess please somebody try to guess let us know are my are my clues too hard
01:18:22 --> 01:18:26 or are they too easy maybe too vague in some ways maybe i'm trying i don't know
01:18:26 --> 01:18:32 i couldn't tell you unless we have feedback yes i'm looking at you peoples,
01:18:33 --> 01:18:43 so until next time keep feeling things deeply keep living life don't trap yourself
01:18:43 --> 01:18:53 in a cage try to understand the perspective of others treat each other well be human beings,
01:18:54 --> 01:19:00 and all that chance this has been once more with feelings with beth and michelle
01:19:00 --> 01:19:02 You can find us wherever you listen to podcasts.
01:19:03 --> 01:19:07 Be sure to follow us on Instagram and Blue Sky at omwfpod.
01:19:08 --> 01:19:15 Visit our page at oncemorewithfeelings.podbean.com. Or you can send us an email
01:19:15 --> 01:19:19 at omwfpod at gmail.com.
01:19:19 --> 01:19:24 Take a moment to subscribe and rate us on iTunes and YouTube.
01:19:25 --> 01:19:28 Until next time, folks. And all that jazz.
01:19:33 --> 01:19:36 How is it to you? Well, you wanted my advice, right?
01:19:36 --> 01:19:43 Well, here it is. But don't forget, Billy Flynn's number one client is Billy Flynn. Meaning what?
01:19:46 --> 01:19:48 Meaning... Don't let him have the same time.
01:19:48 --> 01:19:59 Music.